Is Christian faith necessary for Selfless Love? - Page 44

**PRmerger** · #**646** Jun 23, '12, 1:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sair

Indeed, in the face of all reason and evidence to the contrary, it is with absolute sincerity that I would ask, why believe in any supernatural god?

Well, because it's true.

Is there any other valid reason to believe something, Sair?

ivebeenshown · #**647** Jun 23, '12, 1:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sair

First of all, it is the most parsimonious assumption, given the preponderance of evidence for natural phenomena in contrast to the near absolute lack of evidence for supernatural phenomena - and this despite millennia of human curiosity and investigation as to the origins of our existence.

Regardless of any particularly proposed phenomena (such as the resurrection of Jesus), you can easily infer from observing natural/physical reality that there must be some supernatural being, even without going to the point of ascribing personality to it.

Quote:

Secondly, actual cosmological research is increasingly pointing to the capacity for the universe as we know it to have been self-generating. Lawrence Krauss's A Universe From Nothing is only the most recent popular work on the subject.

But do you understand what they propose, or do you trust them in faith?

If you can observe that you are not self-sustaining, your house is not self-sustaining, this planet and solar system and even galaxy are not self-sustaining, and that each of these physical things I have mentioned are made up of smaller physical things that are not self-sustaining, why would you assume that anything physical could be self-sustaining?

Quote:

Indeed, in the face of all reason and evidence to the contrary, it is with absolute sincerity that I would ask, why believe in any supernatural god?

Why believe?Because it is good to believe what is true; thus far there is no effective demonstration for a self-sustaining property in any physical thing or being. One can accept one of two propositions -- that physical being is self-sustaining, or that physical being is sustained by some non-physical self-sustaining being -- but the acceptance of either proposition is done in faith and not in the face of cold, hard evidence.

ThinkingSapien · #**648** Jun 23, '12, 1:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sair

Lawrence Krauss's A Universe From Nothing is only the most recent popular work on the subject.

Just heard of this book today on Colbert Report. Now that it's gotten the Colbert Bump (video here. see time marker 13:41 is you are in the USA)I'm curious and plan to check it out. The audio book is only 5.5 hours. The interview looked kind of interesting. I can't say I am familiar with his work. But his name is mentioned in these forums so much it will be nice to have some reference to who is being discussed.