Can we establish our own church/parish? - Page 8

ConstantineTG · #**106** Sep 20, '12, 3:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lssanjose

understandable. Do you have a fellow parishioner, with whom you can talk stuff with, in addition to your parish priest?

Depends what you mean by "stuff"

lssanjose · #**107** Sep 20, '12, 3:55 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

Depends what you mean by "stuff"

just mean theology, liturgy, church stuff. I'm surprised by the amount of info I get from my Orthodox friend. Then again, we're Church "geeks." (his words, not mine

). Him being a choir director helps, too.

ConstantineTG · #**108** Sep 20, '12, 3:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lssanjose

just mean theology, liturgy, church stuff. I'm surprised by the amount of info I get from my Orthodox friend. Then again, we're Church "geeks." (his words, not mine

). Him being a choir director helps; and the fact he's surveyed liturgical traditions: Sarum, Celtic, Byzantine, Russian Orthodox, Novus Ordo.

No, all my church geek friends are leaving. One left last year in pursuit of a job. One was temporarily working here in Canada to begin with and will return to the US at the end of the year. So by January I only have people who I can talk to about peroggy making.

lssanjose · #**109** Sep 20, '12, 4:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

No, all my church geek friends are leaving. One left last year in pursuit of a job. One was temporarily working here in Canada to begin with and will return to the US at the end of the year. So by January I only have people who I can talk to about peroggy making.

Well, if you want, we can do some correspondence, since we're in similar boats, except you being involved with the UGCC longer, than I've been with the RGCC (I believe you said you were with the church 2-3 years. I've only been with the RGCC since June 24, this year). One of the things I'll touch on, in some time, is how - in many small parishes, there isn't much of a catechism program, like there is in the Latin rite. So I had to learn, as I go, which I don't mind, really.

ConstantineTG · #**110** Sep 20, '12, 4:10 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lssanjose

Well, if you want, we can do some correspondence, since we're in similar boats, except you being involved with the UGCC longer, than I've been with the RGCC (I believe you said you were with the church 2-3 years. I've only been with the RGCC since June 24, this year). One of the things I'll touch on, in some time, is how - in many small parishes, there isn't much of a catechism program, like there is in the Latin rite. So I had to learn, as I go, which I don't mind, really.

Sure. You got PM

ConstantineTG · #**111** Sep 20, '12, 4:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by malphono

I got a better idea: why not just flush all them "foreign tongues" right down the toilet? After all, as some some insist, didn't the Latins do it in imitation of the East?

And while we're at it, why not follow the Novus Ordo even closer and dump the iconostatis and use a versus populum table instead of an ad orientem altar?

We already did that

But seriously, the Byzantine "model" of evangelization has always been to bring the faith to the local culture. North America has been an aberration because the faith was brought here by immigrants, not missionaries.

malphono · #**112** Sep 20, '12, 4:18 pm

Why even bother?

lssanjose · #**113** Sep 20, '12, 4:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

We already did that

But seriously, the Byzantine "model" of evangelization has always been to bring the faith to the local culture. North America has been an aberration because the faith was brought here by immigrants, not missionaries.

Well, I don't think it's that clear cut. Yes, the immigrants play a role. But, I think it's more sufficient to say, these people haven't assimilated in the sense of keeping culture in the home, and adapting to the culture outside. Kind of like, how my parents did it, when we came to America (I was one, at the time). I should rather say my cousins. My parents were advised not to speak the tongue to my siblings, and me. Meanwhile, I witnessed my cousins who went back and forth, from the home language, to the outside language (English) just fine.

ConstantineTG · #**114** Sep 20, '12, 4:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by malphono

Why even bother?

a. The ethnic parishes tend to be more focused on culture and ethnicity than spirituality. The reason it is so hard to delatinize is because people think what they are doing is the tradition of their culture. They are not bothered with Byzantine tradition. They don't even see their Church as Byzantine, its whatever ethnicity they are.
b. Ethnic parishes will die out. Unless your immigrants are coming in hordes like Filipinos or Mexicans. There are only so much immigrants to come by, there is no guarantee they will live close to where your parish is, and there is no guarantee that the second and third generation will not secularize and leave the faith. The future of the Church and Faith in North America depends on opening the doors of your Church to all. The early Church did it that way, it is very apparent in St. Paul's ministry that the catholicity of the faith means that it can conform to whatever culture and essentially remain the same.
c. Don't get hung up on languages. There are many marks of the faith, languages isn't one of them.

lssanjose · #**115** Sep 20, '12, 4:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConstantineTG

a. The ethnic parishes tend to be more focused on culture and ethnicity than spirituality. The reason it is so hard to delatinize is because people think what they are doing is the tradition of their culture. They are not bothered with Byzantine tradition. They don't even see their Church as Byzantine, its whatever ethnicity they are.
b. Ethnic parishes will die out. Unless your immigrants are coming in hordes like Filipinos or Mexicans. There are only so much immigrants to come by, there is no guarantee they will live close to where your parish is, and there is no guarantee that the second and third generation will not secularize and leave the faith. The future of the Church and Faith in North America depends on opening the doors of your Church to all. The early Church did it that way, it is very apparent in St. Paul's ministry that the catholicity of the faith means that it can conform to whatever culture and essentially remain the same.
c. Don't get hung up on languages. There are many marks of the faith, languages isn't one of them.

+1. That's why the work Sts Cyril & Methodius did, for the Slavs is easily commendable.

ConstantineTG · #**116** Sep 20, '12, 4:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lssanjose

Well, I don't think it's that clear cut. Yes, the immigrants play a role. But, I think it's more sufficient to say, these people haven't assimilated in the sense of keeping culture in the home, and adapting to the culture outside. Kind of like, how my parents did it, when we came to America (I was one, at the time). I should rather say my cousins. My parents were advised not to speak the tongue to my siblings, and me. Meanwhile, I witnessed my cousins who went back and forth, from the home language, to the outside language (English) just fine.

I think a perfect example here is Sts. Cyril and Methodius. They learned a foreign language, they even structured the "barbaric tongue" of the Slavs so that they can use a formal set of words for Liturgy and even created the written form of it. They were Greeks, yet they didn't even evangelize with the Greek tongue or forced the people to use a Greek Liturgy.

malphono · #**117** Sep 20, '12, 5:11 pm

In my earlier post I meant to say:

"Why do I even bother?".

And now? Well I guess I have to ditto and double it.