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May 12, '12, 5:51 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: December 8, 2011
Posts: 736
Religion: Catholic
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The Church and Communism/Socialism
On Youtube someone has sent me comments telling me that the Church and the Pope, support these, I respond with quotes from Pope's criticizing and denouncing Communism and Socialism the he/she responds with see Pius XI's list of errors.
How do I respond?
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May 12, '12, 6:31 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: July 22, 2010
Posts: 2,767
Religion: Baptized and confirmed Easter Vigil, 2012
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989
On Youtube someone has sent me comments telling me that the Church and the Pope, support these, I respond with quotes from Pope's criticizing and denouncing Communism and Socialism the he/she responds with see Pius XI's list of errors.
How do I respond?
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That is a total non sequitur. You don't respond to it at all. You don't have to engage every anti-Catholic ignoramus on the Web, you know.
__________________
"Both justice and charity require love for truth, and essentially involve the search for what is true. Without truth, charity slides into sentimentalism. Love becomes an empty shell to be filled arbitrarily. This is the fatal risk of love in a culture without truth."
-- Pope Benedict XVI --
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May 12, '12, 6:37 pm
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Regular Member
Book Club Member
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Join Date: April 25, 2005
Posts: 674
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989
On Youtube someone has sent me comments telling me that the Church and the Pope, support these, I respond with quotes from Pope's criticizing and denouncing Communism and Socialism the he/she responds with see Pius XI's list of errors.
How do I respond?
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Pope Pius XI clearly opposed communism and socialism. See his encyclical Quadragesimo anno:
"Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth."
"... no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist".
"Communism ...is incredible and portentlike in its cruelty and inhumanity. The horrible slaughter and destruction through which it has laid waste vast regions of eastern Europe and Asia are the evidence; how much an enemy and how openly hostile it is to Holy Church and to God Himself is, alas, too well proved by facts and fully known to all."
Pope Pius did oppose exploitation of workers. Your correspondent on youtube may be equating the good pope's support of decent wages and working conditions with socialism. Or he may even have seen various propositions condemned by the pope and mistakenly thought they were ideas endorsed by the pope.
__________________
Veni, veni Emmanuel; Captivum solve Israel,
Qui gemit in exilio, Privatus Dei Filio.
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May 12, '12, 7:13 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: November 24, 2011
Posts: 1,005
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
This is much more complicated than most people say. If you have 2 or 3 years you want to devote to studying this issue, then go ahead. Otherwise, let other handle this. You are not God. You can't be everywhere and do everything. You have limits. So do I.
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May 12, '12, 7:58 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: December 28, 2010
Posts: 869
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
I wanted to offer another viewpoint.
Some people just want to pick a fight and their minds are closed to objective truth - the truth most fully contained in the Catholic Church.
You can spar with them but it almost always leads to no real fruit except in one respect, it provides good opportunity for us to practice apologetics.
Why not go ahead and debate a little. It helps us to sharpen our skills. If we make a few mistakes along the way - who cares. The other person is not even close to ready for conversion. In any case, they may only remember what we got right, with a little help from the Holy Spirit.
Go at'em!
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May 13, '12, 5:11 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: July 27, 2010
Posts: 500
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Yeah Youtube sucks. I can't stand it. It makes me lose hope in the future of our civilization. It is literally majority atheistic gay rights social liberals.
I was well aware of the existence of such people, but they are such a dominating force on Youtube that it's jaw dropping.
These are New Atheists. They hate, hate, hate, absolutely hate anything religious. They are religiously anti-religious, and make southern baptist creationists look like the most open-minded beings in the universe, THAT'S how narrow-minded these New Atheists are. They are not very rational individuals, and I find it is best to leave them alone. There is nothing more precious in the galaxy than their own tiny brains with which they conduct ritualistic incantations of "logic" in an attempt to outsmart God. Their vast fallacies and inabilities to comprehend anything outside the realm of junior high science ranks these hardhearted angry ignoramuses among the most illogical members of our society.
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May 13, '12, 5:22 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: February 10, 2009
Posts: 3,843
Religion: Catholic - revert
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Just because the Vatican looked down on socialism/communism in the past does not mean that it will in the future. We are living in a world of drastic change, and it's possible that the Vatican will have to change its political views.
__________________
"Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life."
-John 12:25
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May 13, '12, 6:23 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 7,510
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Sock
Just because the Vatican looked down on socialism/communism in the past does not mean that it will in the future. We are living in a world of drastic change, and it's possible that the Vatican will have to change its political views.
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Robert,
I am only writing this to clarify to readers who may not know any better: you have been shown the documents condemning socialism and communism (a form of socialism) over and over. The Church has condemned these political systems for intrinsic flaws, the denial of the rights of people to the fruits of their labor. The systems are inherently unjust.
There is no possiblity that "the Vatican will have to change its political views."
__________________
Men demanded that purely spiritual matters… be… "proved" [in] physical terms[, then] began to perceive that each order of life had evidence proper to itself… To demand physical proof for every article of belief was as fantastic as to demand… mathematical proof for the love of a mother for her child.
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May 13, '12, 6:23 pm
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Regular Member
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Join Date: November 28, 2008
Posts: 980
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989
On Youtube someone has sent me comments telling me that the Church and the Pope, support these, I respond with quotes from Pope's criticizing and denouncing Communism and Socialism the he/she responds with see Pius XI's list of errors.
How do I respond?
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Da, comrade. 
__________________
I say, make room for children, don’t do away with them.
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May 13, '12, 6:35 pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 7,510
Religion: Catholic
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Re: The Church and Communism/Socialism
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanF1989
On Youtube someone has sent me comments telling me that the Church and the Pope, support these, I respond with quotes from Pope's criticizing and denouncing Communism and Socialism the he/she responds with see Pius XI's list of errors.
How do I respond?
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1. Ask for their sources. WRT socialism and communism, the only thing I can think that they could bring up is Liberation Theology, which has been condemned by the Vatican.
Whenever someone says something outlandish about the Church, ask them for their sources. A lot of times they will be unable to respond, or respond with some ridiculously anti-Catholic source.
2. Excellent to respond with quotes from the popes  I don't know why the other person would respond with the Syllabus of Errors... 
3. The policy I try to stick to is to explain the Church's position. I will answer questions regarding clarification, maybe enter into some debate, but I try to remember to stay away from "trying to win." This is because I know that they have different criteria for proof--if they are atheists, they deny miracles because they go against nature, when the point of miracles is that they are God's superceding nature!
Also, all debate against Catholicism seems, in my experience, to boil down to authority. If they completely reject God's authority, or the Catholic Church's authority, then we can't get anywhere. So I know I can't "win" or "prove" anything in their eyes...
And remember that guy who wouldn't go to bed because "someone was wrong on the Internet." Sometimes we have to leave some of the correcting to others 
__________________
Men demanded that purely spiritual matters… be… "proved" [in] physical terms[, then] began to perceive that each order of life had evidence proper to itself… To demand physical proof for every article of belief was as fantastic as to demand… mathematical proof for the love of a mother for her child.
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