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  #1  
Old Aug 12, '11, 7:14 am
Ben Bet Beh Ben Bet Beh is offline
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Exclamation The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Source:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/ge...agisterium.htm

Does the Catholic Church teach there is three levels of the magisterium? If so, could you give me examples of each in practice?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old Aug 12, '11, 7:26 am
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bet Beh View Post
Source:
http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/ge...agisterium.htm

Does the Catholic Church teach there is three levels of the magisterium? If so, could you give me examples of each in practice?

Thanks!

There are various kinds of teaching etc...

but..

The website in the post is not a source to be recommended. Do not take necessarily what you find on that particular website as the Teaching of the Church or the understanding of the Church or Catholic Theology.

Instead the Catechism of the Catholic Church of course is a good source...or even the Catholic Answers site per se...or give a call to the apologist line.
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  #3  
Old Aug 12, '11, 9:01 am
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

I agree with Bookcat. I would not recommend utilizing that website for instruction or formation on Catholic teaching.
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The Catechesis of the Popes
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The more I follow the online discussions ... the more I follow the debates and disagreements in the Church about administrative unity, or the concerns expressed about the moral or personal or administrative or leadership failings of the bishops or the clergy, the more I become convinced that whatever might be the truth of these concerns, ALL of this is simply a distraction.

No, it’s more than that. It’s a justification, an excuse, for not helping each other and those outside the Church fall in love with Jesus Christ. How easy it is to talk about everything, but about Jesus hardly at all.


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  #4  
Old Aug 12, '11, 9:14 am
Ben Bet Beh Ben Bet Beh is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
...Instead the Catechism of the Catholic Church of course is a good source...or even the Catholic Answers site per se...or give a call to the apologist line.
It's a "good" source. This I understand. However, how much should I rely on it? I've read somewhere that it belongs to the "ordinary" magisterium as opposed to the "extraordinary" magisterium. What does that mean? Is the Bible itself part of the "extraordinary" magisterium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859
...I would not recommend utilizing that website for instruction or formation on Catholic teaching.
Why not? Are there obvious errors that you could point to that are in opposition to what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? If you could point me to some inconsistencies, that would help me in my discernment as to why I should avoid that particular web site.

Thanks!
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  #5  
Old Aug 12, '11, 9:44 am
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Why not? Are there obvious errors that you could point to that are in opposition to what the Catholic Church believes and teaches?
CatholicCulture.org has three ratings for websites: green (faithful), yellow (caution), and red (danger!) CatholicPlanet has been rated red - danger, but if you prefer to ignore the advice given to you in this thread, you do so at your peril.

Quote:
This I understand. However, how much should I rely on it? [The Catechism]
I've read somewhere that it belongs to the "ordinary" magisterium as opposed to the "extraordinary" magisterium. What does that mean? Is the Bible itself part of the "extraordinary" magisterium?
Pope John Paul II wrote this letter (in part) which you'll find in the index of the Catechism:
Quote:
Catechesis will find in this genuine, systematic presentation of the faith and of Catholic doctrine a totally reliable way to present, with renewed fervor, each and every part of the Christian message to the people of our time. This text will provide every catechist with sound help for communicating the one, perennial deposit of faith within the local Church, while seeking, with the help of the Holy Spirit, to link the wondrous unity of the Christian mystery with the varied needs and conditions of those to whom this message is addressed. All catechetical activity will be able to experience a new, widespread impetus among the People of God, if it can properly use and appreciate this post-conciliar Catechism.
Extraordinary Magisterium refers to rarely issued proclamations "Ex Cathedra" that the Pope may issue on his own authority. Two examples would be the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Our Lady. These dogmas must be believed with full assent if one is a Catholic.

Ordinary Magisterium pertains to the government and discipline of the Church, which includes doctrinal teachings on faith and morals
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  #6  
Old Aug 12, '11, 9:44 am
Bookcat Bookcat is online now
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bet Beh View Post

Why not? Are there obvious errors that you could point to that are in opposition to what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? If you could point me to some inconsistencies, that would help me in my discernment as to why I should avoid that particular web site.

Thanks!
Trust us on this one...long experience with the author there.

http://www.catholicculture.org/cultu...fm?recnum=3892
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  #7  
Old Aug 12, '11, 9:50 am
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bet Beh View Post
It's a "good" source. This I understand. However, how much should I rely on it? I've read somewhere that it belongs to the "ordinary" magisterium as opposed to the "extraordinary" magisterium. What does that mean? Is the Bible itself part of the "extraordinary" magisterium?



Thanks!
The Catechism is as Bl. Pope John Paul II noted in the degree to be found in the beginning of it....that it is a "sure norm".

It is true though that the teachings there do not become some "super dogma" ..there are various kinds of teachings found within the Catechism. Each has the weight that it has on its own. Those thing that are infallible via the various ways teachings are infallible...are well infallible. Those teachings that are of the various other natures..are each according to its kind.

Of course we do not just accept or assent to that which is infallible (not that you are suggesting such..) we embrace the whole of the Teachings of the Church...in the various ways.

The Catechism is a great gift! a rich source...beautifully expressing the Catholic Faith.


(oh and Sacred Scripture...is well Sacred Scripture!)
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  #8  
Old Aug 12, '11, 11:07 am
Ben Bet Beh Ben Bet Beh is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat
Trust us on this one...long experience with the author there.

http://www.catholicculture.org/cultu...fm?recnum=3892
Yikes! I had no idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
...It is true though that the teachings there do not become some "super dogma" ..there are various kinds of teachings found within the Catechism. Each has the weight that it has on its own....
So the catechism is essentially the doctrines of the church which could possibly (not necessarily) change in the future because they do not belong to the realm of dogma (that which must be believed without a shadow of a doubt)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat
...we embrace the whole of the Teachings of the Church...in the various ways....
What do you mean by "various ways"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat
...The Catechism is a great gift! a rich source...beautifully expressing the Catholic Faith....
The Catechism is certainly of good use from a discernment standpoint when trying to understand the Catholic Faith. This is something that is lacking in non-Cahtolic circles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookcat
...(oh and Sacred Scripture...is well Sacred Scripture!)
What role does Scripture play in the discernment process?
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  #9  
Old Aug 12, '11, 11:13 am
Tomster Tomster is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bet Beh View Post
It's a "good" source. This I understand. However, how much should I rely on it? I've read somewhere that it belongs to the "ordinary" magisterium as opposed to the "extraordinary" magisterium. What does that mean? Is the Bible itself part of the "extraordinary" magisterium?


Why not? Are there obvious errors that you could point to that are in opposition to what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? If you could point me to some inconsistencies, that would help me in my discernment as to why I should avoid that particular web site.

Thanks!
Just some basic solid information for you Ben:

The magisterium is the Church's divinely appointed authority to teach the truths of religion. "Going therefore, teach ye all nations . . . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you" (Matthew 28:19-20). This teaching is infallible: "And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." The solemn magisterium is that which is exercised only rarely by formal and authentic definitions of councils or popes. Its matter comprises dogmatic definitions of ecumenical councils, or of the popes teaching ex cathedra, or of particular councils, if their decrees are universally accepted or approved in solemn form by the pope; also creeds and professions of faith put forward or solemnly approved by pope or ecumenical council.

The ordinary magisterium is continually exercised by the Church especially in her universal practices connected with faith and morals, in the unanimous consent of the Fathers and theologians, in the decisions of the Roman Congregations concerning faith and morals, in the common sense of the Faithful, and various historical documents, in which the faith is declared. All these are founts of teaching which as a whole are infallible. They have to be studied separately to determine how far and in what conditions each of them is an infallible source of truth.
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  #10  
Old Aug 12, '11, 11:24 am
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
So the catechism is essentially the doctrines of the church which could possibly (not necessarily) change in the future because they do not belong to the realm of dogma (that which must be believed without a shadow of a doubt)?
Doctrines do not change, but they can be further developed in the Church's understanding of them, according to inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Some have objected to what they believe is a complete reversal of doctrinal teaching, but they generally take a doctrinal quotation out of context, and apply their own limited understanding to it. Had they the voluminous resources of historical documents and collective wisdom of the college of bishops united with the Pope in arriving at that new development, there would not be the scandalous attacks on the Church and Her teachings that we occasionally see in this forum. Cardinal Newman wrote extensively on this development of doctrine - and he is now a saint.

On the other hand, disciplines can and often do change. One might ask the question, is this doctrine? or is it simply a discipline? Rubrics for reception of communion pertain to discipline, as are many liturgical changes, for example. Religious dissent is not an option for one who calls themself a Catholic. We give faithful assent to all that the Church regulates in the government of the faithful

Hope this is helpful
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  #11  
Old Aug 12, '11, 3:04 pm
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Bet Beh View Post

So the catechism is essentially the doctrines of the church which could possibly (not necessarily) change in the future because they do not belong to the realm of dogma (that which must be believed without a shadow of a doubt)?

The Catechism is made up of various kinds of teaching..of various kinds...some are indeed infallible...


What do you mean by "various ways"?

Well practically speaking..a Catholic believes and follows the teachings of the Church...but there are differing kinds of assent required. For example some things are to be believed "with Faith" others are to be for example given "religious assent of intellect and will"...


The Catechism is certainly of good use from a discernment standpoint when trying to understand the Catholic Faith. This is something that is lacking in non-Cahtolic circles.


What role does Scripture play in the discernment process?
I will let the CCC go into that last question:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PO.HTM

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PP.HTM

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PQ.HTM

(and it goes on from there...)


If you want a long text..try the recent Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Benedict XVI on the Word of God...
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Old Aug 12, '11, 3:15 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is online now
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Catechism:

The teaching office

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task "to preach the Gospel of God to all men," in keeping with the Lord's command.415 They are "heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers" of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a "supernatural sense of faith" the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium's task to preserve God's people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church's shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. the exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... the infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a "definitive manner," they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.
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Old Aug 12, '11, 3:16 pm
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

There could be more that can be said...but that gives you much of the basics.
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Old Aug 12, '11, 5:55 pm
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

Quote:
Ben Bet Beh
Does the Catholic Church teach there is three levels of the magisterium? If so, could you give me examples of each in practice?
The CCC #88 (1997) clearly combines exactly with Pope John Paul's Motu Proprio (= on his own authority) Apostolic Letter Ad Tuendam Fidem, 1998 (ATF), which requires the assent of divine and Catholic faith to believe (credenda sunt) dogmas (a category one truth) (#750.1).
Such as the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the Vatican I dogma on papal infallibility.

A category 2 truth requires the assent of ecclesial faith, as a secondary truth, "proposed definitively" (definitive proponuntur) to be "firmly embraced and held" (now Canon 750.2). In fact, the 1983 revision of Canon Law had replaced in #749.3 “dogmatically declared or defined” with “infallibly defined”, thus NOT expressing a limitation of infallibility to dogmas. ATF better enables Canon Law to apply to the understanding of infallibility with the Profession of Faith covering the two categories of infallible doctrine.
Such as in the papal Encyclicals Casti Connubii (1930) and Humanae Vitae (1965) against contraception, and in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis on male-only priests.

The category 3 truths are non-definitive (non-infallible) and require intellectual assent ("loyal submission of the will and intellect", Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 25), not an assent of faith.
Fr William G Most in Catholic Beliefs cites the teaching that St Mark and St Luke are the authors of the Gospels that bear their name, and the teaching that to determine the meaning of Sacred Scripture we must determine the genre or pattern of writing the inspired human author is using.
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Old Aug 13, '11, 12:22 pm
Ben Bet Beh Ben Bet Beh is offline
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Default Re: The Three Levels of the Magisterium

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Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
I will let the CCC go into that last question:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PO.HTM

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PP.HTM

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PQ.HTM

(and it goes on from there...)


If you want a long text..try the recent Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Benedict XVI on the Word of God...
Thank you for this. I particularly like the following passages and are helpful in my discernment:

108 Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book". Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, "not a written and mute word, but incarnate and living".73 If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open (our) minds to understand the Scriptures."74

113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).
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