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  #1  
Old Aug 2, '11, 3:06 am
DJ Pius X DJ Pius X is offline
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Default Old Catholic Church

Can anyone tell me a bit about the Old (Utrecht) Catholic Church? is it treated the same way the Orthodox or Eastern churches are treated, or is it seen as a Protestant denomination?
  #2  
Old Aug 2, '11, 3:17 am
DominicStephen DominicStephen is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Since they dispute Papal Infallability(sp?), they cannot be in perfect communion with the catholic church, also they have very strong ties with the Anglican church, especially the ordinatain of Anglican bishops. So one would assume that they would be classed as Protestant.

God bless

Dominic
  #3  
Old Aug 2, '11, 4:56 am
Agape Thom Agape Thom is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church
  #4  
Old Aug 2, '11, 8:06 am
Usbek de Perse Usbek de Perse is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Anglicans, despite their historical ties to Protestantism, do not usually like to be considered Protestant, and indeed the existence of so many catholic minded Anglicans demonstrates this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominicStephen View Post
Since they dispute Papal Infallability(sp?), they cannot be in perfect communion with the catholic church, also they have very strong ties with the Anglican church, especially the ordinatain of Anglican bishops. So one would assume that they would be classed as Protestant.

God bless

Dominic
  #5  
Old Aug 2, '11, 8:52 am
DominicStephen DominicStephen is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usbek de Perse View Post
Anglicans, despite their historical ties to Protestantism, do not usually like to be considered Protestant, and indeed the existence of so many catholic minded Anglicans demonstrates this.
My apologies, I never intended any disrespect, I am a bit of a closet historian, and tend to see things from a historical view-point, instead of thinking in modern terms.

Again my apologies,

God Bless

Dom.
  #6  
Old Aug 2, '11, 5:31 pm
Usbek de Perse Usbek de Perse is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Absolutely no apologies needed as no offense was given, nor taken.

An interesting point with regard to the nettlesome issue of Anglican orders. Putting aside, for the moment, the whole Aposotlicae Curae matter, many Anglican bishops have been consecrated with Old Catholic lines of succession. In fact, I know a "continuing Anglican" bishop who had traditional Anglican lines, Orthodox lines, and Old Catholic lines at his consecration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominicStephen View Post
My apologies, I never intended any disrespect, I am a bit of a closet historian, and tend to see things from a historical view-point, instead of thinking in modern terms.

Again my apologies,

God Bless

Dom.
  #7  
Old Aug 2, '11, 6:32 pm
GKC GKC is online now
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usbek de Perse View Post
Absolutely no apologies needed as no offense was given, nor taken.

An interesting point with regard to the nettlesome issue of Anglican orders. Putting aside, for the moment, the whole Aposotlicae Curae matter, many Anglican bishops have been consecrated with Old Catholic lines of succession. In fact, I know a "continuing Anglican" bishop who had traditional Anglican lines, Orthodox lines, and Old Catholic lines at his consecration.
Given the number of Anglican bishops jointly consecrated with OC (since 1932) and PNCC (since 1946) co-consecrators, it would be harder to find Anglican clergy without such lines than otherwise. The lines are passed as each Anglican bishop so co-consecrated continues to ordain/consecrate, himself. My own, late, rector was ordained by a Continuing bishop who was consecrated by a bishop with PNCC lines.

But, as I noted before, no statement has been made on this, generally, by the RCC, so the judgment stated in Apostolicae Curae is the rule.

GKC
  #8  
Old Aug 2, '11, 9:07 pm
DJ Pius X DJ Pius X is offline
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

If that's the case, are OC orders in fact valid?
  #9  
Old Aug 2, '11, 9:15 pm
GKC GKC is online now
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Default Re: Old Catholic Church

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Pius X View Post
If that's the case, are OC orders in fact valid?
The short answer is that the RCC considered the Old Catholics of Utrecht to possess valid, though illicit orders, at one time. The same for the Polish National Catholic Church.

Things are complicated, though. I do not make a generalization as to current status.

GKC
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