When did the de-latinization of the Easter Churches start? - Page 3

ByzCathCantor · #31 May 13, '12, 3:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus L

The rosary is as beloved in the East as it is the West.

You speak with such certainty. We'll look forward to seeing you praying the Rosary with the ladies guild before Divine Liturgy.

Seamus L · #32 May 13, '12, 4:14 pm

Not exactly sure what you're getting at ByzCathCantor, but if you suspect I'm exaggerating, all I have to say is that you're in for quite a shock if you ever meet some of the Basilian Fathers I've met over the years, and I'm not just referring to the ones over 70.

rciadan · #33 May 13, '12, 4:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus L

This year, while visiting a Ukrainian Catholic Church, I saw a posted announcement asking for donations for an orphanage in Ukraine. Among the items they were requesting, were rosaries along with other religious medals.

The rosary is as beloved in the East as it is the West.

I have heard that the prayer rope used to pray the Jesus Prayer is sometimes referred to as a rosary.

Cavaradossi · #34 May 13, '12, 5:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rciadan

I have heard that the prayer rope used to pray the Jesus Prayer is sometimes referred to as a rosary.

Are the beads used to pray the rosary even properly known as a rosary?

Vico · #35 May 13, '12, 6:21 pm

Merriam Webster has for rosary, noun:

1 often capitalized : a Roman Catholic devotion consisting of meditation on usually five sacred mysteries during recitation of five decades of Hail Marys of which each begins with an Our Father and ends with a Gloria Patri
2 : a string of beads used in counting prayers especially of the Roman Catholic rosary

Phillip Rolfes · #36 May 13, '12, 8:47 pm

I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern "rosary" that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." It's form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I've not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don't really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church's liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn't part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that's what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment.

ThatOneGuy92 · #37 May 13, '12, 8:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern "rosary" that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." It's form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I've not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don't really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church's liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn't part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that's what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment.

ByzCathCantor · #38 May 14, '12, 6:10 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillip Rolfes

I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion. There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern "rosary" that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." It's form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I've not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don't really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church's liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn't part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that's what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy92

Ditto!

rciadan · #39 May 26, '12, 4:58 pm

Quote:

I honestly find the issue of the rosary in the Eastern Catholic tradition to be somewhat blown out of proportion.

I was not aware that there was an "issue" regarding the rosary. I was just asking out of mere curiosity if there was the same thing or similar in the Eastern Rite.

Quote:

There is, in fact, an authentically Eastern "rosary" that predates the Roman rosary and is prayed on Mt. Athos to this day; in fact, I believe the monks of Mt. Athos are required to pray it daily. The Byzantine rosary is called the "Prayer Rule of the Theotokos." It's form is somewhat more fluid than the Dominican rosary that most Roman Catholics pray. I can think of two variation of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos off the top of my head: that of St. Seraphim of Sarov, and that of St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky. I have my own variation of it at the moment, but only because I've not yet memorized either of the above mentioned versions.

Can you provide a link or something to these variations?

Quote:

The only issue I have with Eastern/Byzantine Catholics praying the Dominican/Roman rosary is when it is prayed publicly in place of Orthros/Matins or Third Hour before the Divine Liturgy. I don't really even have an issue with the rosary being prayed publicly, so long as it is not prayed in place of the Church's liturgical life. In our tradition the only prayer rule that can replace the celebration of the Hours is the Jesus Prayer.

Agreed! Don't change the liturgy....

Quote:

That being said, I believe it would be preferable if Eastern/Byzantine Catholics prayed their own ancient form of the rosary, or some variation of it, rather than adopting a form that isn't part of their tradition and differs from it in some ways. But in the end, prayer is prayer. What matters is not the words we say, but the attitude of the mind and heart while praying. At least, that's what St. Theophan the Recluse says. I tend to trust his judgment.

Though I would like to be aware of these Eastern variations....

Phillip Rolfes · #40 May 26, '12, 5:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rciadan

I was not aware that there was an "issue" regarding the rosary. I was just asking out of mere curiosity if there was the same thing or similar in the Eastern Rite.
Can you provide a link or something to these variations?
Agreed! Don't change the liturgy....

Though I would like to be aware of these Eastern variations....

Following are some links to three variations of the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos. These are from my blog.

http://themasterbeadsman.blogspot.co...-seraphim.html

http://themasterbeadsman.blogspot.co...os-iii-st.html

http://themasterbeadsman.blogspot.co...otokos-iv.html

Enjoy!

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip