Intercession of the Saints

[Zenkai]

I was wondering what advantages asking a Saint for intercession has over asking God directly.

Also, are there any Patron Saints for scrupulosity?

-Thanks

[JaKael02]

Your not asking a Saint "over" God. You are asking the Saint to pray to God for and with you. 2 people praying is better than 1.

Think of it as a way of invoking the Church Triumphet (the body of Christ) to be engaged with earthly matters.

That's how I see it. I'm not pro.

Kindly,

James

[RedDuke50]

Their prayers are more powerful than ours and God offers their stronger intercession for our benefit, yet it is good to have a balance. Pray to God but also pray to the Saints, don't completely leave out the Saints but don't forget God and pray only to Saints. The Virgin Mary's prayers are the most powerful.

I pray to St. Alphonsus Ligouri for my scrupulosity. He was scrupulous for a time as well.

[LB_in_TX]

I hope this may help put it into perspective for you. (from the Catechism of the Catholic Church)

956 The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."495


Do not weep, for I shall be more useful to you after my death and I shall help you then more effectively than during my life.496
I want to spend my heaven in doing good on earth.497

957 Communion with the saints. "It is not merely by the title of example that we cherish the memory of those in heaven; we seek, rather, that by this devotion to the exercise of fraternal charity the union of the whole Church in the Spirit may be strengthened. Exactly as Christian communion among our fellow pilgrims brings us closer to Christ, so our communion with the saints joins us to Christ, from whom as from its fountain and head issues all grace, and the life of the People of God itself"498:


We worship Christ as God's Son; we love the martyrs as the Lord's disciples and imitators, and rightly so because of their matchless devotion towards their king and master. May we also be their companions and fellow disciples!499

[iProfess]

"In this way is [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" [Miscellanies 7:12 (c. A.D. 201)]. - St. Clement of Alexandria

Praying to saints (which isn't a correct term, it should be praying with saints) who are in heaven, who currently behold the beatific vision of the Holy Trinity face to face, shouldn't be something that we are prideful or arrogant about. I often find this the case with our Protestant brothers and sisters. When we approach the Almighty God, we need to approach him with fear and trembling. We need to approach him with humility. When we beseech the saints who are honored to call heaven home to pray to God for us, it is one of the most humbling things you can do.

I am a poor, unworthy sinner. I have sinned against God many times, and because of my fallen nature, will sin until my death.

Mary, the Immaculate mother of Christ Jesus is pure and without stain. Would Christ deny his mother?
A great passage in Scripture that shows an example where Mary's intercession is fulfilled by Jesus is John 2:1-11

1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
2
Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding.
3
When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."
4
(And) Jesus said to her, "Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come."
5
His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
6
Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons.
7
Jesus told them, "Fill the jars with water." So they filled them to the brim.
8
Then he told them, "Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter." So they took it.
9
And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom
10
and said to him, "Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now."
11
Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops - New American Bible Online Version

Jesus heard and listened to his mother's plea on another's behalf.

Hope this helps!!

In Christ through Mary,
Billy

[pablope]

Originally Posted by Zenkai

I was wondering what advantages asking a Saint for intercession has over asking God directly.

Also, are there any Patron Saints for scrupulosity?

-Thanks

God actually orders it here:

Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.


Going through someone is a humanly difficult thing, isn't it? It humbles us having to ask someone to pray with us...and God sees that humility....and the prayers of others, when we muster ourselves to ask for intercession.

[Mumbles140]

It's like asking your priest / family / friends to pray for you, but the saints are a lot closer to God. This shouldn't stop you from praying to God because you are not praying to saints, but you are praying 'through' saints (same direction - always towards God).

[lssanjose]

Originally Posted by iProfess

"In this way is [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" [Miscellanies 7:12 (c. A.D. 201)]. - St. Clement of Alexandria

Praying to saints (which isn't a correct term, it should be praying with saints) who are in heaven, who currently behold the beatific vision of the Holy Trinity face to face, shouldn't be something that we are prideful or arrogant about. I often find this the case with our Protestant brothers and sisters. When we approach the Almighty God, we need to approach him with fear and trembling. We need to approach him with humility. When we beseech the saints who are honored to call heaven home to pray to God for us, it is one of the most humbling things you can do.

I am a poor, unworthy sinner. I have sinned against God many times, and because of my fallen nature, will sin until my death.

Mary, the Immaculate mother of Christ Jesus is pure and without stain. Would Christ deny his mother?
A great passage in Scripture that shows an example where Mary's intercession is fulfilled by Jesus is John 2:1-11


United States Conference of Catholic Bishops - New American Bible Online Version

Jesus heard and listened to his mother's plea on another's behalf.

Hope this helps!!

In Christ through Mary,
Billy

I don't know if the provided passage is a good example. An evangelical co-worker of mine once used it to prove Mary's lack of influence on the Lord. His response to her would demonstrate a clear disregard for her intercession. This is just my interpretation of that section, when trying to prove/disprove saintly intercession.

[JaredR]

Originally Posted by lssanjose

I don't know if the provided passage is a good example. An evangelical co-worker of mine once used it to prove Mary's lack of influence on the Lord. His response to her would demonstrate a clear disregard for her intercession. This is just my interpretation of that section, when trying to prove/disprove saintly intercession.

Not at all! Jesus was not brushing off His mother. Even Protestant commentaries on this passage say that Jesus was expressing tenderness towards His mother. Did He not oblige her?

[Tenebrae]

St. Therese the Little Flower also went through a spell of scrupulosity.

[iProfess]

Originally Posted by lssanjose

I don't know if the provided passage is a good example. An evangelical co-worker of mine once used it to prove Mary's lack of influence on the Lord. His response to her would demonstrate a clear disregard for her intercession. This is just my interpretation of that section, when trying to prove/disprove saintly intercession.

We have to remember to take it for what it is.
The facts:
1) The wedding party ran out of wine.
2) Mary expressed a concern on their behalf.
3) Christ listened to his mother and granted the wedding party's "wish" (prayer) for more wine.

The key to this passage is that Christ did this miracle for his mother EVEN THOUGH his hour had not yet come (his time for miracles and signs during the three year period of his ministry had not yet come).

I hope this clarifies some stuff!

In Christ through Mary,
Billy

[lssanjose]

Originally Posted by iProfess

We have to remember to take it for what it is.
The facts:
1) The wedding party ran out of wine.
2) Mary expressed a concern on their behalf.
3) Christ listened to his mother and granted the wedding party's "wish" (prayer) for more wine.

The key to this passage is that Christ did this miracle for his mother EVEN THOUGH his hour had not yet come (his time for miracles and signs during the three year period of his ministry had not yet come).

I hope this clarifies some stuff!

In Christ through Mary,
Billy

It does, and I'll discuss this in great detail with my spiritual father (who just accepted my request to be it), after Divine Liturgy, Sunday.