"Please St. Joseph, look around"- unbiblical? - Page 2

CleverUserName · #16 Jun 20, '12, 12:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neofight

While much of what we believe as Catholics can be found directly in scripture, there are plenty of things you are bound to find that cannot be directly traced to the Bible.

But, that's okay. That fact is one of the major differences between us and many protestant faiths - sola scriptura.

Catholics believe not only in what is found in scripture, but by Tradition (capital T).

The Church had a vibrant life before the New Testament was penned. The things that we believe that go back to the days before the New Testament are the Tradition I spoke of.

Not every tennant of our faith made it into the gospel. To validate this contention read the very last verse in the Gospel of St. John, that essentially says, Not everything that Christ did (or other significant events concerning Christ or his church) are recorded in the gospels (or even epistles or letters of the NT), because no book is large enough to possibly contain all that information.

As the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen commented, "The Church was not created for the Gospel, the Gospel was created for the Church"; therefore the many Traditions that do not appear in scripture are still valid.

Peace to all

*Slapping forehead*

AS I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST THAT YOU QUOTED:

""(I know that as Catholics, we don not rely upon scripture alone. Understood. But still, every bit of anti-Catholic rhetoric I'd personally heard could be resolved by pointing to scripture.)""

Todd Easton · #17 Jun 20, '12, 12:08 pm

There are not many examples in Sacred Scripture of the righteous dead working miracles but there are a couple: Samuel (1 Samuel 28:19; Sirach 46:20) and Elisha (2 Kings 13:21; Sirach 48:14.)

If the righteous dead can work miracles, how can we be faulted for asking them for such miracles? If God has given them the gift of working miracles, how can we be faulted for asking them to exercise their God-given gift?

CleverUserName · #18 Jun 20, '12, 12:13 pm

Ok folks, I guess i need to reiterate what I said in my original post: I know that we do not believe in Scripture alone. I repeat: I know that we do not believe in Scripture alone.

But just for the record, Viola incognita did, in fact, provide scripture to support the practice of using that prayer. Exactly what I was asking for. I am grateful to her for that.

I was simply stating in my original post that in my personal experience, every time I've come up against an objection, I HAVE been able to provide scripture to support a Catholic practice. That's my personal experience. It was my experience too when I was the one posing the objections and concerns. This thread has been no exception.

Blessings and gratitude to all who tried to help.

CleverUserName · #19 Jun 20, '12, 12:14 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Easton

There are not many examples in Sacred Scripture of the righteous dead working miracles but there are a couple: Samuel (1 Samuel 28:19; Sirach 46:20) and Elisha (2 Kings 13:21; Sirach 48:14.)

If the righteous dead can work miracles, how can we be faulted for asking them for such miracles? If God has given them the gift of working miracles, how can we be faulted for asking them to exercise their God-given gift?

Thank you, Todd. That is precisely what I was asking for. I am hugely appreciative. Thank you very much.

Wildkit · #20 Jun 20, '12, 12:17 pm

[quote=CleverUserName;9430781
(I know that as Catholics, we don not rely upon scripture alone. Understood. But still, every bit of anti-Catholic rhetoric I'd personally heard could be resolved by pointing to scripture.)

[/QUOTE]

How many things does one believe that are not specifically in Scripture? I sense you answered your own question.

I go on as to ask why do all these events, miracles only happen in this one Church! Is God trying to tell me something?

CleverUserName · #21 Jun 20, '12, 12:20 pm

"In life and death he performed amazing miracles":

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...16&version=GNT

Bingo!

Thanks again, Todd.

CleverUserName · #22 Jun 20, '12, 12:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildkit

How many things does one believe that are not specifically in Scripture? I sense you answered your own question.

I go on as to ask why do all these events, miracles only happen in this one Church! Is God trying to tell me something?

Very interesting question. Although we are not "sola scriptura", I think we would be harder pressed to find among our beliefs and practices that which is NOT found in scripture. That has been my personal experience to date.

CleverUserName · #23 Jun 20, '12, 12:23 pm

I'm so glad I posted this thread. Happy dancin here.

Mumbles140 · #24 Jun 20, '12, 12:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleverUserName

Ok folks, I guess i need to reiterate what I said in my original post: I know that we do not believe in Scripture alone. I repeat: I know that we do not believe in Scripture alone.

But just for the record, Viola incognita did, in fact, provide scripture to support the practice of using that prayer. Exactly what I was asking for. I am grateful to her for that.

I was simply stating in my original post that in my personal experience, every time I've come up against an objection, I HAVE been able to provide scripture to support a Catholic practice. That's my personal experience. It was my experience too when I was the one posing the objections and concerns. This thread has been no exception.

Blessings and gratitude to all who tried to help.

I understood what you meant, and I am glad that you have been able to find scriptural backing for all Church teachings. However, I think some of these posters, myself included, wanted to discuss teachings in Tradition outside of scripture so that if you ever do come across one of those scenarios, you do not lose your way due to lack of scripture.

CleverUserName · #25 Jun 20, '12, 12:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumbles140

I understood what you meant, and I am glad that you have been able to find scriptural backing for all Church teachings. However, I think some of these posters, myself included, wanted to discuss teachings in Tradition outside of scripture so that if you ever do come across one of those scenarios, you do not lose your way due to lack of scripture.

Thank you for that, Mumbles. Is there a thread dedicated to such a thing on here, and if not, can you please start one? I would like to read about Catholic teaching that cannot be supported by scripture and only by Tradition. You are quite right in saying that I'd be wise to learn such things and be able to defend them.

I'm sorry I thought I was being lectured on the Catholic position on sola scriptura. Apologies.

Viola Incognita · #26 Jun 20, '12, 12:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleverUserName

"In life and death he performed amazing miracles":

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...16&version=GNT

Bingo!

That is awesome. God speaks in Scripture. Very cool.

philial · #27 Jun 21, '12, 9:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleverUserName

Like I said, I do understand praying to saints. In this case, we are asking a saint in heaven to do something supernatural for us here on earth. Are you saying that since we are no longer "distinct from Christ" and that we are sharing his glory with "the eternal ones" that it is ok to ask them to find object for us here on earth? I am really trying to understand.

Yes, Sadie, I have no problems with saying that I pray to this or that saint directly. Not just that they may pray to God for me, but that, by the grace of God, they may intervene (or look around) themselves.

I regard protestant objections to be based on underestimating the extend to which God really means it when He allows us to be His sons / daughters. It also underestimate the depth of union & extent of the co-identifcation between Christ & His Church. But then, of course, once you accept that neither the Father nor Christ are doing anything by half-measures you have to accept that the idea of the Church falling into satanic error is impossible...whereupon protestanism would disappear in a puff of smoke!

So I pray to individual saints, and with them give the glory to Him who has shared His glory with us!

CleverUserName · #28 Jun 22, '12, 8:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by philial

Yes, Sadie, I have no problems with saying that I pray to this or that saint directly. Not just that they may pray to God for me, but that, by the grace of God, they may intervene (or look around) themselves.

I regard protestant objections to be based on underestimating the extend to which God really means it when He allows us to be His sons / daughters. It also underestimate the depth of union & extent of the co-identifcation between Christ & His Church. But then, of course, once you accept that neither the Father nor Christ are doing anything by half-measures you have to accept that the idea of the Church falling into satanic error is impossible...whereupon protestanism would disappear in a puff of smoke!

So I pray to individual saints, and with them give the glory to Him who has shared His glory with us!

Thank you for this explanation. Yes, all glory to God

chypmonk · #29 Jun 22, '12, 3:28 pm

What I was taught was "St. Anthony,.St. Anthony, please look around something is lost that: can not be found"

The reason is someone stole a book , I think a bible or Gospel, and St. Anthony prayed for the man and he returned it because an angel told the man he better return it.. So St. Anthony became the saint of lost things. Funny he is a doctor of the Church but has spent his eternity looking for lost keys and eyeglasses--LOL

CleverUserName · #30 Jun 23, '12, 7:43 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chypmonk

. Funny he is a doctor of the Church but has spent his eternity looking for lost keys and eyeglasses--LOL

LOL!