Question: Can prayers or devotions equal the value of one Mass? - Page 3

surritter · #31 Jun 10, '12, 2:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neofight

With that logic, God sees those in areas where there is no clergy or church, or who must worship in hiding and can therefore only offer up prayers as disappointing Him? I think not! The last will be first comes to mind. But, that's what is so wonderful about having a God who is divine instead of human.

Wow -- completely missing the point. As Catholics, we believe that God the Son is the Perfect Sacrifice.
Yes, those who live in areas without clergy are obviously not at fault.
But your post obliquely stomps on the theology of the Redemption. And the theology of the Eucharist.

irishpatrick · #32 Jun 10, '12, 3:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neofight

With that logic, God sees those in areas where there is no clergy or church, or who must worship in hiding and can therefore only offer up prayers as disappointing Him? I think not! The last will be first comes to mind. But, that's what is so wonderful about having a God who is divine instead of human.

I think it is sad that all of God's Created Children do not go to Mass, for any number of a million reasons. Yet, that does not take away the fact that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of worship.

Zosimus41 · #33 Jun 11, '12, 5:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

I think it is sad that all of God's Created Children do not go to Mass, for any number of a million reasons. Yet, that does not take away the fact that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the highest form of worship.

Well said.

epan · #34 Jun 11, '12, 5:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpatrick

With complete respect to all Protestants and non-Catholics on this board.

Worship is owed only to the Lord/God. Catholics, despite what many think, only worship Jesus (God), they do not worship Mary or the Saints, or statues.

When Catholics go to Mass, they can properly say they are worshipping the Lord because the Lord is Present in the Tabernacle, and than Jesus is truly Present later in the Mass during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist.

Is it proper to say Protestants, who do not have the Lord's actual Presence in their Churches, are praising Jesus (God) during their services, rather than worshipping?

[again, submitted with sincere respect]

God is not present in your life, unless you are in Church? Your prayers are unheard, unless you at a particular GPS location?

irishpatrick · #35 Jun 12, '12, 3:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by epan

God is not present in your life, unless you are in Church? Your prayers are unheard, unless you at a particular GPS location?

God hears our prayers, obviously, no matter where we are. Yet, we are not talking only prayer, we are talking about worship.

**po18guy** · #36 Jun 14, '12, 11:15 pm

It strikes me that in the OT, there was no worship without sacrifice. Now, Jesus is our sacrifice, but we are also members of His Body, and so can offer ourselves as a sacrifice in combination with worship. At the offertory during the mass, we offer our sacrifice - even of our very selves - as members of the Body of Christ, to the Father. It is similar to the old "faith and works" equation: one should naturally proceed alongside the other.

Gods_Peace · #37 Jun 25, '12, 6:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lincoln7

Irishpatrick,

I'd say the folks at my church worship during our service, indeed they worship God in all aspects of their lives; "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." (Rom 12:1).

I would also contest we most certainly have the Lord present with us in church, "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them." (Matt 18:20). Of course however, we do not adhere to the understanding of communion as it is in the RCC, but I still think its quite plain, Protestants most certainly have the presence of God with them as they draw near to Him by faith, presenting their bodies and lives as sacrifices too Him (1 Pet 2:5).

Regards

Lincs

But has your church community been around 30 A.D.? You can only feel God if you let him in, and the strongest presence of God leads you to the Catholic Church, the Church that has been around for 2000 years and counting. We have the Holy Spirit, and ALL OF THE PROPHETS ON OUR SIDE.

Roy5 · #38 Jun 26, '12, 7:15 am

Sorry, but any assertion that only one expression of religion is totally valid, and the rest are inferior, is at the root of religious bigotry. It has caused horrendous wars, bitter persecution, and flagrant arrogance - and still does today. This overbearing and warped attitude was exemplified by Pius IX in his jingoistic "Syllabus of Errors" 150+ years ago. Thank God for John XXIII and Vatican II which pointed in a different direction. Fortunately, most Catholics I know aren't infected by prejudice against fellow Christians and their earnest efforts to serve our one God.

We all are together on this planet, none of us has a monopoly on truth, and God is far beyond human comprehension - that's what makes God God. As Christians, we need to express humility, understanding, and love, rather than be trapped by pride, pomposity and presumptuousness. Jesus certainly disdained the attitude of imperiousness exhibited by the Pharisees and others who thought they alone had access to the correct form of faith.

Let us work together to make religion a bridge rather than a barrier. May God bless those of every creed, color, culture and country. No exceptions.

surritter · #39 Jun 26, '12, 9:35 am

Roy -- I'm really struggling to see which war was caused by Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors. Methinks you're exaggerating.

There is indeed one form of worship that is higher than all others. That is the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. If you can find a church that allows congregants to integrate themselves into that sacrifice -- body, blood, soul, and divinity -- then you should certainly join that church. Is that a bigoted piece of advice?

The point of this thread is that the only Church that has that complete sacrifice of Jesus in sacramental form is the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church. To make such an assertion is not to incite hatred or war.
Please stop with the relativistic banter -- of course God loves all people equally. But there are certain "bridges" that can unite us to Him more effectively than others.

Roy5 · #40 Jun 26, '12, 10:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by surritter

Roy -- I'm really struggling to see which war was caused by Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors. Methinks you're exaggerating.

There is indeed one form of worship that is higher than all others. That is the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. If you can find a church that allows congregants to integrate themselves into that sacrifice -- body, blood, soul, and divinity -- then you should certainly join that church. Is that a bigoted piece of advice?

The point of this thread is that the only Church that has that complete sacrifice of Jesus in sacramental form is the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church. To make such an assertion is not to incite hatred or war.
Please stop with the relativistic banter -- of course God loves all people equally. But there are certain "bridges" that can unite us to Him more effectively than others.

Sorry, but I never suggested that the 'Syllabus of Errors' caused a war. However, obviously the religious wars of the 17th and 18th centuries resulted from religious bigotry, by both Catholics and Protestants. The main difference I see today is that traditional Catholics continue toi maintain that their faith is the sole fountain of absolute truth while most Protestant denominations make no such claim. At the same time, I find both Catholic and Protestant friends (and family members) very congenial toward the faith of one another.

If you agree with the 'Syllabus of Errors' we certainly are on different pages, and I suggest that John XXIII and Vatican II abandoned the attitude of Pius IX. It seems that some posters here would continue to prefer the Vatican I approach. There appears to be an enormous division within Catholicism at the present time, as polls and various events have exposed. One of such polls which I saw in US Catholicfound that 52% of American Catholic reject transubstantiation, upon which the Church places such emphasis.

But, that's okay. Thank God we live in a country where religious freedom flourishes, where Protestant presidents appointed six Catholics and three Jews to the Supreme Court (no Protestants). That's the way it should be. Don't view people by their creeds but by their deeds.

As a person from a mixed Catholic-Protestant heritage, I am strongly committed to ecumenism in its true since - a spirit of unity but not necessarily union. Our Protestant founders (55 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence) knew enough to permit and even promote religious pluralism.