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  #1  
Old Jun 22, '12, 5:10 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default alter

Does your bishop have the authority to alter the TLM?


PEACE
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  #2  
Old Jun 22, '12, 5:51 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

No takers?

peace
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  #3  
Old Jun 22, '12, 6:18 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

2 Timothy 3:5 habentes speciem quidem pietatis, virtutem autem eius abnegantes. Et hos devita:

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  #4  
Old Jun 22, '12, 6:34 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

ἔχοντες μόρφωσιν εὐσεβείας τὴν δὲ δύναμιν [αὐτῆς ] ἠρνημένοι καὶ τούτους ἀποτρέπου

ειρήνη
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  #5  
Old Jun 22, '12, 6:54 am
T More T More is offline
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Default Re: alter

The Council of Trent speaks about this. The answer is no. We have bishops that have altered the NO, however.
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  #6  
Old Jun 22, '12, 8:31 am
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corsair corsair is offline
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Default Re: alter

I agree with T More. With the OF Mass he can alter the postures to some extent. But not the words. I would hope that no Bishop would even begin to mess with the TLM. Not sure what the reactions would be.
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  #7  
Old Jun 22, '12, 9:36 am
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair View Post
I agree with T More. With the OF Mass he can alter the postures to some extent. But not the words. I would hope that no Bishop would even begin to mess with the TLM. Not sure what the reactions would be.
When, in time, did the unalterable form form?

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  #8  
Old Jun 22, '12, 10:16 am
MarkThompson MarkThompson is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazcompat View Post
Does your bishop have the authority to alter the TLM?


PEACE
They would, and traditionally did (this is how organic development of the liturgy and the flourishing of local uses and traditions proceeded across the centuries), but since at least 1570 the Holy See has reserved almost all of that power to itself, which is the prerogative of the pope as the supreme authority in the Church.
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  #9  
Old Jun 22, '12, 10:41 am
TS Aquinas TS Aquinas is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazcompat View Post
Does your bishop have the authority to alter the TLM?


PEACE
According to Quo Primum of St. Pius V, he'll incur the wrath of God if he does. Only the Holy Father is not bound by this Apostolic Constitution. The only changes that can happen are changes approved at the Papal level, though 'changes' in this regard has never meant removal or revamp but minute additions and/or micro-changes to existing prayers. This does not apply to the modern OF.
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  #10  
Old Jun 22, '12, 11:11 am
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: alter

The 1962 liturgical books can't be changed.

Otherwise they would no longer be the 1962 liturgical books.
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  #11  
Old Jun 22, '12, 1:26 pm
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
The 1962 liturgical books can't be changed.

Otherwise they would no longer be the 1962 liturgical books.
is there a good source for the 1570 missal?

peace
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Old Jun 22, '12, 1:33 pm
ProVobis ProVobis is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazcompat View Post
is there a good source for the 1570 missal?

peace
Try this. It was set up by a former member of CAF.
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  #13  
Old Jun 22, '12, 2:37 pm
hazcompat hazcompat is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProVobis View Post
Try this. It was set up by a former member of CAF.
thank you. i was surfing for hours. exactly what i needed.

peace
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  #14  
Old Jun 24, '12, 4:14 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: alter

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazcompat View Post
Does your bishop have the authority to alter the TLM?


PEACE
Certainly not your Bishop.

However, the form of the Mass comes under disciplinary law and is not a doctrine so it can be changed. The only things in a Mass that cannot be changed are the words of consecration and the priest receiving Communion. Everything else could be changed.
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