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  #16  
Old Feb 17, '17, 8:20 am
PJM PJM is online now
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drac16 View Post
I suppose it's possible. More specifically, it's possible that my understanding of God is wrong.
It is not only possible; it is in reality FACT

And your ARE growing slowly in right understanding.

God Bless you!

Patrick
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A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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  #17  
Old Feb 17, '17, 9:31 am
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wmscott wmscott is offline
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJM View Post
AGREED, so WHY then are their so many unbelievers and so MUCH lack of Right understanding?

GBY
This is just my opinion; since the Reformation and the wedge that was driven between Christians due to man’s weakness and folly, I believe that it is Satan sowing the seeds of doubt and disorder and we fall prey to that, some more than others. If it was not true then he could care less, however since it is true he has to attack Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist and His truth within the Church.
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WMSCOTT

JOHN 20:21-23
(Jesus) said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
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  #18  
Old Feb 18, '17, 6:20 am
PJM PJM is online now
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmscott View Post
This is just my opinion; since the Reformation and the wedge that was driven between Christians due to man’s weakness and folly, I believe that it is Satan sowing the seeds of doubt and disorder and we fall prey to that, some more than others. If it was not true then he could care less, however since it is true he has to attack Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist and His truth within the Church.
AGREED!

Thanks and GBY

Patrick
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A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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  #19  
Old Feb 18, '17, 11:37 am
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Peter J Peter J is offline
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

I am subscribing to this thread, because I'm curious how many of my Protestant friends (and acquaintances and enemies, etc) will respond to a "Is it even possible" thread.
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  #20  
Old Feb 18, '17, 12:45 pm
Gabriel of 12 Gabriel of 12 is offline
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Perplexity;14477498]I do not believe it is possible, at least insofar as Catholic theology articulates it.
The Church uses the term Transubstantiation as an avenue to assist the doubting intellect to have hope.

The Church simply defines through Transubstantiation that a 'Change' has taken place.
When you add to the Church's understanding of divine revelation, you fail to understand the definition of Transubstantiation the Church uses to give hope to the failing intellect of science, that holds to that which is only visible, in time and space.

When you try and fit an Aristotle secular definition of substance and accidents to the Transubstantiation definition of the Church, that a change in substance has taken place by the divine Word of God. The secular definition fails at faith, while the Church's definition of Transubstantiation points to a substantial change occurs, and calls us to faith which opens our souls, minds, intellect to divine revelation of God's True and Substantial Presence which cannot be quantified.

Peace be with you

Last edited by Gabriel of 12; Feb 18, '17 at 1:04 pm.
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  #21  
Old Feb 19, '17, 10:49 am
Gabriel of 12 Gabriel of 12 is offline
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Augustine3;14479059]It's all about the individual's disposition.
For example:
[i]"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." - John 6:63
I believe you hit on something here that directly addresses the OP's question in "understanding".

What is at stake here deals with one's interpretation of the Spirit recorded in the biblical account. There exist a non-Catholic Christian misunderstanding of the biblical revelation of Spirit, that introduces a new meaning that defines Spirit relating to something symbolically or metaphorically.

When the biblical term "Spirit" is never used to understand something as symbolic or metaphorically. It is here, where a misunderstanding of the real presence in Holy Communion begins.

Please read the following scripture that defines the Spirit that compliments Jesus teaching from John 6:63 as it relates to the flesh and the spirit in Eucharist.

1Cor.1:
22
For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23
but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
.
2Cor.
3
I came to you in weakness* and fear and much trembling,
4
and my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive (words of) wisdom,* but with a demonstration of spirit and power,
5
so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God.
9
But as it is written:

“What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard,

and what has not entered the human heart,

what God has prepared for those who love him,”
10
this God has revealed to us through the Spirit.

For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God.
11
Among human beings, who knows what pertains to a person except the spirit of the person that is within? Similarly, no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God. 12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God.
13
And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.*
14
Now the natural person* does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. 15
The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment* by anyone. 16
For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Quote:
Ah it's the spirit that is profitable. The flesh counts for nothing. Jesus must have meant to eat his flesh metaphorically (of course I'm a Catholic, I don't share this view!).
You raised a good point

Peace be with you
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  #22  
Old Yesterday, 7:28 am
PJM PJM is online now
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Default Re: Is it even POSSIBLE?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel of 12 View Post
I believe you hit on something here that directly addresses the OP's question in "understanding".

What is at stake here deals with one's interpretation of the Spirit recorded in the biblical account. There exist a non-Catholic Christian misunderstanding of the biblical revelation of Spirit, that introduces a new meaning that defines Spirit relating to something symbolically or metaphorically.

When the biblical term "Spirit" is never used to understand something as symbolic or metaphorically. It is here, where a misunderstanding of the real presence in Holy Communion begins.
Please permit me [the OP] to interject a thought here

I'm keenly aware of the Protestant position of denial based on John 6: 63 [or 64] depending on the bible version quoted:

From the RSV:
John.6 Verses 63 to 64
It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him.

WHAT THIS is actually teaching is John 4: 23-24
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." ... in other WORDS, the Spirit IS GOD; Is Jesus both in his human nature and in His Divine Nature

Quote:
Please read the following scripture that defines the Spirit that compliments Jesus teaching from John 6:63 as it relates to the flesh and the spirit in Eucharist.

1Cor.1:
22
For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
23
but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
.
2Cor.
3
I came to you in weakness* and fear and much trembling,
4
and my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive (words of) wisdom,* but with a demonstration of spirit and power,
5
so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God.
9
But as it is written:

“What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard,

and what has not entered the human heart,

what God has prepared for those who love him,”
10
this God has revealed to us through the Spirit.

For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God.
11
Among human beings, who knows what pertains to a person except the spirit of the person that is within? Similarly, no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God. 12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God.
13
And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.*
14
Now the natural person* does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. 15
The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment* by anyone. 16
For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

You raised a good point

Peace be with you
THANKS so much!

Patrick
__________________
Irish2: PJM


http://working4christtwo.wordpress.com


A.B. Fulton Sheen: "The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it."
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