God doesn't force Himself on those who reject Him? - Page 7

je333 · #91 Jun 20, '12, 5:35 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

Yep. I come from one.

Would it be safe then to say that you are comparing your own culture's beliefs to Christianity and because of the difference in beliefs that you arrived in thinking that you are an atheist? Is it not true that other culture that worship Nature or the Sun for example a form of "religious" belief and relies on it's providence?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

No I label myself an atheist because I do not think there is any evidence for any kind of Being of a supernatural nature to exist.
Sarah x

I feel as if you are searching for something otherwise you wouldn't be on Catholic forum.... What evidence do you need to believe?

WTSherman · #92 Jun 20, '12, 5:41 pm

You fool! The whole point of God's wrath is that he is merciful even to tavern wenches.

je333 · #93 Jun 20, '12, 5:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

No I label myself an atheist because I do not think there is any evidence for any kind of Being of a supernatural nature to exist.
Sarah x

Since you are coming from a different culture and with different beliefs, I wouldn't approach in trying to understand God and how he is taught in Christianity this kind of question but rather it would be more effective to compliment your traditional ways to that of the Christian ways, without forcing it on you, of course.

You might already have a misconception of what or who God is? If you think God is this old guy with a long beard who lives far away above us then, yeah, that's a wrong image of him. God is IN you. He dwells in you, in your mind, in your body, in your heart, in your soul. I feel as if you are searching for something otherwise you wouldn't be on Catholic forum... What evidence do you need to believe?

Marylamb128 · #94 Jul 21, '12, 10:13 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

A comment by a poster on another thread got me thinking about something.

If God doesn't force Himself on those that reject Him, or those who simply say there's not enough evidence to make any kind of belief in Him possible, how can Christians then claim that the good that atheists do, can only be done by the Grace of God

If that is true, then God is indeed forcing Himself on those that do not believe in Him because He is imbuing them with a Grace they neither asked for, nor want.

I do a certain amount of good in my local community. I use the success I've had to inspire young girls to go into business. I fund certain things for children who otherwise wouldn't be able to affort them, because I believe in the importance of building a firm foundation for the future of all children, and I see education as a cornerstone to this.

According to the above, the only reason I am doing any of this, is because of the Grace from a God I do not believe exists

How can that be?

And how can this God then ever condemn me for not believing in Him, when it doesn't make any difference anyhow, He'll just go right on and make me do good and fill me with Grace, whether I want it or not

I don't believe in the devil either. But to be fair, that must mean even though I don't believe in him either, anything not so good that I do (I'm not perfect

) must be influenced by him, even though I don't care for him, and don't believe he exists!

My body and mind is just like a football field to these guys, playing me off one against the other

I don't get it.

Sarah x

Marylamb128 · #95 Jul 21, '12, 10:25 am

Even though you don't believe in God He believes in you,and He knows you personally and how everything will turn out,so right now you don't believe but something tells me you called for help at onetime and He did't answer or you thought He didn't .I could be off base,I practice catholism and I do no charity work whatsoever,if someone asks I will help but do not go out of my way.Does this mean I am not graced?I don't know,I wish I had whatever it is you have so I can help people,but see God doesn't force anyone to do anything.maybe you can pass that whatever you call it on to me,I call it grace and God loves you.one more thought are pride and ego is huge so sometimes charity work is ego based I'm not saying that it's not a good thing but if your doing it for the good feeling that's ego based and we are human all of us are driven by ego,when it's grace the ego is not in the picture it's kind of an unawareness of the loving acts your doing and that comes from God,it's like driving to a place when your like wow how did I get here your mind was somewhere else but you got there,you weren't consious of the route but you got to point b,same with grace when it's grace you do it without the ego involved.marylamb

Linusthe2nd · #96 Jul 21, '12, 6:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

A comment by a poster on another thread got me thinking about something.

If God doesn't force Himself on those that reject Him, or those who simply say there's not enough evidence to make any kind of belief in Him possible, how can Christians then claim that the good that atheists do, can only be done by the Grace of God

If that is true, then God is indeed forcing Himself on those that do not believe in Him because He is imbuing them with a Grace they neither asked for, nor want.

I do a certain amount of good in my local community. I use the success I've had to inspire young girls to go into business. I fund certain things for children who otherwise wouldn't be able to affort them, because I believe in the importance of building a firm foundation for the future of all children, and I see education as a cornerstone to this.

According to the above, the only reason I am doing any of this, is because of the Grace from a God I do not believe exists

How can that be?

And how can this God then ever condemn me for not believing in Him, when it doesn't make any difference anyhow, He'll just go right on and make me do good and fill me with Grace, whether I want it or not

I don't believe in the devil either. But to be fair, that must mean even though I don't believe in him either, anything not so good that I do (I'm not perfect

) must be influenced by him, even though I don't care for him, and don't believe he exists!

My body and mind is just like a football field to these guys, playing me off one against the other

I don't get it.

Sarah x

Here is what the Church teaches. You can perform naturally good acts. Whether they would have supernatural merit only God could answer. However, he does move you in all your acts, maintains you in existence, and directs you to your proper end - whether you believe it or not, whether you want it or not. And he no doubt " inspires " you to do even naturally good acts. In the O.T. there are plenty of examples of how God moved the Assyrians or the Persians, or other peoples to either punish or help his people. On the other hand, when you do something you recoginze as bad or evil, Satan would be influencing you - usually indirectly. But we have free will, we can cooperate with our good intentions or thoughts ( listening to God ) or reject them ( listening to Satan).

The Church also teaches that all people of good will, who through no fault of their own do not know him, can be saved. On the other hand it also teaches that no normal adult can for a long time reject belief in Him without being held morally culpable. In that case one's salvation would be doubtful. And even if one believes in Him, and follows His Word, no one is assured of salvation. We must work out our salvation " with fear and trembling, " not taking anything for granted. As St Paul said "...work so as to win the prize..."

The thing is, whether we want Him or not, He wants us and the moment we die we will know wheather we will spend eternity in hell or heaven. You see, He doesn't care what we want, He has a plan for us and if we reject it and Him, there will be no heaven for us. After death there are no mulligans.

fhansen · #97 Jul 21, '12, 9:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

A comment by a poster on another thread got me thinking about something.

If God doesn't force Himself on those that reject Him, or those who simply say there's not enough evidence to make any kind of belief in Him possible, how can Christians then claim that the good that atheists do, can only be done by the Grace of God

If that is true, then God is indeed forcing Himself on those that do not believe in Him because He is imbuing them with a Grace they neither asked for, nor want.

I do a certain amount of good in my local community. I use the success I've had to inspire young girls to go into business. I fund certain things for children who otherwise wouldn't be able to affort them, because I believe in the importance of building a firm foundation for the future of all children, and I see education as a cornerstone to this.

According to the above, the only reason I am doing any of this, is because of the Grace from a God I do not believe exists

How can that be?

And how can this God then ever condemn me for not believing in Him, when it doesn't make any difference anyhow, He'll just go right on and make me do good and fill me with Grace, whether I want it or not

I don't believe in the devil either. But to be fair, that must mean even though I don't believe in him either, anything not so good that I do (I'm not perfect

) must be influenced by him, even though I don't care for him, and don't believe he exists!

My body and mind is just like a football field to these guys, playing me off one against the other

I don't get it.

Sarah x

We're judged by God on our love. Matthew 25:31-46 as well as the story of the Good Samaritan demonstrate this fact-and St John of the Cross, a Doctor of the Church, stated it explicitly: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love." And faith, I believe, is at least implicit in this kind of love, even if we deny it or are unaware of it.

atheistgirl · #98 Jul 23, '12, 5:40 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marylamb128

but something tells me you called for help at onetime and He did't answer or you thought He didn't .I could be off base,

Totally off base.

Never happened. Ever.

Quote:

.one more thought are pride and ego is huge so sometimes charity work is ego based I'm not saying that it's not a good thing but if your doing it for the good feeling that's ego based

There is no denying I feel good about what I do. It adds to my sense of selfworth, and pride in myself. For sure.

But that's not the reason I do what I do. That's a byproduct of what I do.

I do it to make a difference, a real difference, to the lives of the kids and young adults we work with.

Sarah x

atheistgirl · #99 Jul 23, '12, 5:43 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linusthe2nd

On the other hand it also teaches that no normal adult can for a long time reject belief in Him without being held morally culpable. In that case one's salvation would be doubtful.

Well, on that basis I am definately morally culpable.

I reject believe in all and any Deities on the basis I see no evidence for such a belief.

So, I guess my salvation is doubtful.

Oh well.

Sarah x

atheistgirl · #**100** Jul 23, '12, 5:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhansen

We're judged by God on our love.

Wait.

Hold that last post of mine regarding my salvation.

I'm a very loving person.

There may yet be hope for me.

Sarah x

Linusthe2nd · #**101** Jul 24, '12, 12:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by atheistgirl

Wait.

Hold that last post of mine regarding my salvation.

I'm a very loving person.

There may yet be hope for me.

Sarah x

And why not, we are praying for you!!! You don't mind that do you?

atheistgirl · #**102** Jul 24, '12, 8:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linusthe2nd

And why not, we are praying for you!!! You don't mind that do you?

Of course not

I've had lots of people say they'll remember me in their prayers.

I think it's very sweet.

It's just like me sending most of you good vibes

Sarah x

Ontheway · #**103** Jul 24, '12, 9:01 am

Forces.

Today’s thunderstorm is a force. It forces me to get indoors to avoid being wet. I can choose not to do this and stay outside. It is my choice, but I can not deny that there is thunderstorm and that it is a force outside myself. I can’t create it or make it go away.

Nature’s force: you were born, like it or not. You are a product of a biological process that is larger than you. A force that you don’t control. You could say that you ignore it, or even claim that it doesn’t exists, but you know better.

You do everything by the power of your own will. You make things happen and make people feel good. You feel powerful in your capacity to affect change. This is great. However, without the power of nature that put you here; that biological pro-creative force, you would not be here. Your power is limited. You are at the mercy of those biological forces. These forces can bring you down as well.

Now about your ethical choices. As you look around you, you may be discovering that the choices you make may be different from the choices made by others. Some people choose to do good, while others choose to do evil. The fellow in Denver, or last year in Norway, chose to do very evil things. You may not believe that evil exists, but it is in front of you. Since this is the case, you probably ask about the source of evil. It has to come from somewhere.
By the same token, the good that people do often requires self-sacrifice and sometimes working against one’s own best interest; working against those biological instincts of self-preservation, etc. So, where do these impulses to do good come from? The impulse to jump into the freezing river to rescue someone, risking one’s own life is but one example. There are many others.
I sometimes think about those early Christian martyrs who were killed for their faith. Someone put a knife to their throat and said “deny your God or you die” – and they chose death. Sometimes, after hours of torture, or by being torn to shreds by wild animals. Were they insane? An event like this happened within the last 5 years in Iraq. A European engineer working on the oilfields was captured and given that ultimatum. He would not deny his God so they slit his throat. They put the video on their TV. It is probably somewhere on youtube.
Why would these thousands of people give up their lives for their belief in the GOD that doesn’t exist?

That thunderstorm and that biological force ” forces” itself on you. You can choose to deny its existence. You can try to ignore it, but it is still there. That evil in the world exists, whether you make claims to the contrary or not. So does God.
You say that there is no proof of a deity. You are right. There are no deities, or rather, there are countless “deities” that people choose to believe in and follow, from Venus de Milo, to Paris Hilton, to Wall Street, or any other one you come up with. The people who choose to follow them are generally disappointed.
But, there is one God and this is a very large difference.
You want palpable proof. Fair enough. God will eventually give it and you will see. He comes to those who seek and you are clearly seeking. But, have patience. He doesn’t come when you demand it. He comes when you are ready to open the door.

With “good vibrations”.

Marylamb128 · #**104** Jul 24, '12, 10:50 am

You sound like a wonderful person.I can guarentee you God has big plans for you,you do more than alot of christians,the embodiment of faith is love and God is love,it's no accident your on here.keep up the good work and you will find God I know your not conciously looking for Him,but he already knows you personally and loves you very much.