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  #106  
Old Jun 20, '12, 3:10 pm
ljpgoodwin ljpgoodwin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2009
Posts: 184
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why do some Catholics believe social doctrine is optional?

[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
How do you come to that conclusion? There is no time in history where a government did a better job of helping people that the Free Market or the Catholic Church. In fact, government giving creates envy and is stealing, as Centismus Annus says. Siocialim is a sin.

The U.S. government is not and never has been anything close to socialism. CST says over and over again that the government has the right and obligation to step in when the private sector is unable or unwilling to provide for the people of the nation. This is just a fact of CST. Might I suggest looking at Chapter 4 of the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church? There are 5 fundamental principles that are worth noting when discussing CST and economics.

1. THE PRINCIPLE OF THE COMMON GOOD.
2 THE UNIVERSAL DESTINATION OF GOODS.
3.THE PRINCIPLE OF SUBSIDIARITY.
4. PARTICIPATION.
5.THE PRINCIPLE OF SOLIDARITY.

A balance between the public and private sector is what the Church is striving for in CST.


[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
The more government has regulated the more businesses have slowed down or failed. Regulation hurts the poor, confused the markets and stimies inventiveness. The auto industry would have many more companies producing cars and employing people if it weren't for regulations. The Act of 1944 was stealing and in the long run it DID NOT help. The GI bill created many colleges that put out cheap diplomas. The GI bill created housing problems.

Can you support your idea that the G.I. Bill is the cause of the housing problems? That sounds like it is coming more from an emotional than any credible or objectively supportable academic argument. We have some of the best schools, public and private, in the world. We also have some bad ones too. But that is more about the free market. People with good grades get to go to good schools. People with no so good grades go to not so good school. The price of education in the last 10 years is another topic.
Regulation protects the poor. Go and talk with AT&T or T-Mobile if you don't think there is a thing called greed in the public sector.


[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
Catholic Social teaching does not say to force people to be charitable!

Catholic social teaching says over and over that the government has the right and obligation to collect taxes. That is not forcing anything. It's what is discussed in #4. PARTICIPATION as one of the foundations of social morality. Collecting and the correct use of taxes is a good and holy thing and truly Catholic.


[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
If the rich get richer (I pray) then the poor loose their status and become either somewhat less poor, middle class and many many of these poor became rich as a result of the rich getting richer

I also want the rich to do well. But I don't want the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor. There is such a thing as oppression and injustice. That is why we have social morality (CST or Social Ethics). Pope Leo XIII wrote Rerum novarum because it was becoming clear the private sector was oppressing the poor. This is what is discussed in #1 THE PRINCIPLE OF THE COMMON GOOD and #2 THE UNIVERSAL DESTINATION OF GOODS in the Compendium. The Compendium also addresses your idea that if the rich get richer the poor do better, often called the “Trickledown Effect.” There were many things that President Regan did that were good…like raising taxes, but his trickledown idea was not his best.


[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
We need the public sector for one thing: safety - period. The public sector has done more to create an immoral society than any other factor. Leave the people alone. Give freedom a chance. Read Fr. Sicrico's new book "Defending the Free Market"
Read the document called "Economic Justice for All" by the bishops of the United States. Also read, as I have said the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church by the Pope. I'll take the Pope and the U.S. bishops over Fr. Sicrico any day. ;0)
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  #107  
Old Jun 20, '12, 4:04 pm
ljpgoodwin ljpgoodwin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2009
Posts: 184
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Why do some Catholics believe social doctrine is optional?

[quote=Hamlet123;9429913]
Quote:
How do you come to that conclusion? There is no time in history where a government did a better job of helping people that the Free Market or the Catholic Church. In fact, government giving creates envy and is stealing, as Centismus Annus says. Siocialim is a sin.
Where does Centismus annus say government giving creates envy and is stealing? The government has helped the poor by building the roads, highways, electrical system, clean water system, telephone system, public school system and on and on, The buildings we live and work in are safe because of government regulations. All you have to do is go live in a place where there is no government regulations to see the difference. I have lived in S.E. Asia and people are dying because there is no government regulations when it comes to building houses or public buildings or how electrical systems are installed or any regard for pollution. People live and die based on good regulation such as we have here in the U.S.
Please see #190 of the Compendium where we learn that it is our obligation to participate in the democratic system. Catholic social morality (CST) teaches that God made us as social creatures and government, democratic government like we have here in the U.S. and say Canada is a good thing.

The idea that government can't do anything right is not very supportable when one considers that the government is made up of citizens like you and me just like the public sector. People are people no matter where they work. There are good people in the government and there are bad people in the private sector.
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