Amazing Grace innapropriate for Church? - Page 21

liturgyluver · #**301** Jun 8, '12, 6:40 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

Protestants do not have Mass at all. No mere change in songs is going to make Mass look Protestant except in the most shallow use of the word.
As the song "Amazing Grace" is allowed in the Liturgy of the Hours, I simply can not accpet the premise it is too Protestant for the Catholic Church.

No they don't have the perfect Catholic Mass, but most of the mainstream denominations have Holy Comunion services of great solemnity, and the shape of their liturgies - and sometimes their execution would look very much like a Catholic mass.

I don't know what it's like in the states but in the UK those not in the know don't realise that they are not attending a Catholic mass - it happened yesterday at Westminster Abbey at the Corpus Christi Eucharist, when a Catholic lady sitting next to me simply refused to believe that the service wasn't Catholic until she asked at the end, and of course it was too late then.

vz71 · #**302** Jun 8, '12, 6:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by liturgyluver

No they don't have the perfect Catholic Mass, but most of the mainstream denominations have Holy Comunion services of great solemnity, and the shape of their liturgies - and sometimes their execution would look very much like a Catholic mass.

Appearences are not what makes the Catholic Mass.

It is the valid Sacrament cosecrated by a valid Priest that makes it so.

In other words...it either is or it is not.
There is no 'less then perfect' Catholic Mass to describe a Protestant communion service.

liturgyluver · #**303** Jun 8, '12, 7:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vz71

Appearences are not what makes the Catholic Mass.

It is the valid Sacrament cosecrated by a valid Priest that makes it so.

In other words...it either is or it is not.
There is no 'less then perfect' Catholic Mass to describe a Protestant communion service.

You have completely missed the point of what I said.

Diana Catherine · #**304** Jun 8, '12, 7:52 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by vz71

Appearences are not what makes the Catholic Mass.

It is the valid Sacrament cosecrated by a valid Priest that makes it so.

In other words...it either is or it is not.
There is no 'less then perfect' Catholic Mass to describe a Protestant communion service.

That is so true, even what they believe is happening at that communion service is different but on the other hand, I can see where the Catholic mass can look like a protestant communion service when protestant songs are sung and the music becomes our focus rather than the Eucharist.

**ProVobis** · #**305** Jun 8, '12, 7:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

What was amazing to me is that one of the Communion instrumental pieces was a piece from a MOVIE. I was totally taken aback, because our former bishop banned all theatrical pieces from the Masses, including Wagner's Wedding March. I will be interested to see if the new bishop allows this piece.

I don't know if there was an official ban by the Church but the pieces by Wagner and Liszt were very slow in coming around for approval by the Church. The reason was I believe that they were too pagan for Church weddings, or something to that effect. The Trumpet Voluntaries and Tunes (by Clarke, Stanley, Purcell, and others) grew to be more widely accepted.

fred conty · #**306** Jun 8, '12, 1:32 pm

It's aweful.

my 2 pennies.

Zosimus41 · #**307** Jun 8, '12, 8:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnewton

Protestants do not have Mass at all. No mere change in songs is going to make Mass look Protestant except in the most shallow use of the word. To that extent, the Catholic Church has always allowed some degree of inculturation to adapt the liturgy to a people. America was first and foremost a Protestant nation. That is why it took so long for a Catholic to be elected president. That is why we have the terms WASP, Bible Belt and Protestant work ethic.

As the song "Amazing Grace" is allowed in the Liturgy of the Hours, I simply can not accpet the premise it is too Protestant for the Catholic Church.

Peace of Christ be with you pnewton,

Protestants do not have Mass at all And thats the case and point I was trying to make. Go back and reread my post

Some protestant churches look like a watered down catholic mass. watch tbn they even wear catholic bishop look alike clothing.

thewanderer · #**308** Jun 19, '12, 6:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zosimus41

The wanderer,

May God Bless you and your family.

Dont worry about the "Christmas Tree" issue

Ironically during the move the Methodist
church was having a huge garage sale we bought a 7 1/2 foot Christmas Tree for 15.00!!
Its a nice one too.

If I stated anything that may have caused any bad feelings please forgive me.

My point with the whole amazing grace thing is I have a belief that we already have enough outside influence. As I posted before. Alter girls,extra ordinary Eucharistic Ministers. Everyone jumping up going to communion (I remember having to navagate past people staying seated during cummunion) While individually these dont seem much like any problem but when you have a mass with all these added together

Alter girls,Female lectors, Female/an army of Eucharistic ministers,no alter rails, Singing amazing grace,Eucharistic Ministers blessing the children, Clapping, The list goes on and on.

Lets be honest it looks more like a protestant service than it does a reflection of a Roman Catholic Mass.

I think it lends itself to a whole lot of liturgical abuses.

A muslim once said if I believe the way you believe I would be on my face to receive communion. Thats from a Fathers Sermon explinations of the Latin Rite on you tube

Im not the only one that feels this way. Theres sadley a minority of folks that feel the same way or at least in the same ballpark.

I tried to point out also in previous posts the church has gone astray from its traditional ways due to outside influences and pressure from its members.

For one example through history.Pelagius with his heretical teachings once had the ear of the church.

We have groups now trying to get the church to accept women as preist and gay marriage.

In this politically correct world we live in its a call to be charitable as not to offend anyone.This allows a live and let live attitude
But better we not offend God as he is not pollitically correct.

I mean look at Micheal Jackson how many times was this guy accused of child molestation yet hes glorfied not boycotted. Seems our young nation has a real short memory.

Peace be with you and I hope all is well

So your problem with it is not in and of itself that since it was written by a protestant it doesn't belong in Church, but rather based on sometthing else. Thats totally fine. I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything you've written above ( for instance I don't think the Mass looks more like a protestant service than a roman Catholic Mass... but I am also mostly thinking of ones that are done well and tastefully with good faithful priests who encourage unity with the Magisterium...

) but from this post I can see that you are not disagreeing with me about the fact that origin does not determine essence. In other words, where a thing comes from does not determine what it is. Which is the main statement I really have a problem with.