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  #61  
Old Jul 3, '12, 6:17 pm
PRmerger's Avatar
PRmerger PRmerger is offline
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Default Re: Is the CCC official church doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Sock View Post
I watch Adoration on EWTN's Daily Mass most everyday.
Well, that's a bit different.

Can't you go to Adoration?

Would you rather look at a picture or video of your wife, or would you rather BE present to her in the same room?

(Please note: the above question is a pointed one about the difference between watching a video and being physically present with someone. Not about whether you are married or not.)
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  #62  
Old Jul 3, '12, 9:55 pm
Robert Sock Robert Sock is offline
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Default Re: Is the CCC official church doctrine?

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Originally Posted by PRmerger View Post
Well, that's a bit different.

Can't you go to Adoration?

Would you rather look at a picture or video of your wife, or would you rather BE present to her in the same room?

(Please note: the above question is a pointed one about the difference between watching a video and being physically present with someone. Not about whether you are married or not.)
For whatever it may be worth, I feel I'm in communion with God. I spend a LOT of quiet time in silent prayer. God speaks to me!
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  #63  
Old Jul 3, '12, 9:57 pm
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PRmerger PRmerger is offline
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Default Re: Is the CCC official church doctrine?

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Originally Posted by Robert Sock View Post
For whatever it may be worth, I feel I'm in communion with God. I spend a LOT of quiet time in silent prayer. God speaks to me!
Well, with all due respect, Robert, clearly you are not getting what you need from this "communion with God". It seems to be lacking so much that you want to die in order to be in communion with God.

May I suggest actually going to Adoration, rather than watching it on TV?
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  #64  
Old Jul 3, '12, 10:17 pm
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RPRPsych RPRPsych is offline
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Default Re: Is the CCC official church doctrine?

A bit late in the day, but some fascinating stuff here:

1. The CCC is a "compendium" or "reference book" of official Church Teaching. While much of this is infallible, some of it (such as the sections on science and technology) is more of a reflection on the world we live in, and other parts (such as the section on salvation outside the Church) should be read carefully and with discernment - as one earlier poster pointed out, understanding these may require a fairly in-depth knowledge of theology, Church Tradition and Scripture.

2. About science - Robert, at one level, I completely agree with you. I've been involved in medical research myself, and I know how morally discouraging some of the practices involved can be. But the key here is not to reject the whole based on a few rotten parts.

I'm a psychiatrist myself, and am aware of the chicanery that goes on in drug, therapy and "nutritional supplement" trials. This doesn't mean science is wrong, any more than the existence of Jehovah's Witnesses means the Bible is wrong. Everything in this world, sacred or profane, can be put to good or evil uses. The real problem is not with science per se, but with flawed human beings who care more about publications, papers and earnings than with the true advancement of knowledge for the benefit of mankind. I've personally experienced the "good" side of medical science too often (sometimes to life-saving extents) to dismiss it outright.

3. About an "upper world" - well, to me there's just one upper world, and that's Heaven. (There may be levels in Heaven, as we can probably deduce from 2 Corinthians, but I don't think they count as separate worlds.) But it's worth nothing that several scientists - such as Karl Popper and even the non-theist Roger Penrose - do believe in the existence of a world of Platonic ideals, where scientific and mathematical ideas exist in their "pure form". To me as a Catholic, that world would just be a part or sub-set of Heaven, if it does exist at all.

4. About the wish to die - there's a lot of difference between a saintly wish to be joined to God in Heaven (which we find, for example, in the letters of St. Paul) and the wish to commit suicide, which is sinful. But we must also remember that St. Paul expressed an equal wish to "remain here and continue his work", and that he pointed out that "no man hates his flesh, but loves it and nourishes it." Similarly, in the book of Tobit, both Tobit and Sarah pray for death - but God sends them deliverance and healing instead. Death will come to us at the time that God appoints it - to me, I guess He knows best, and I leave the date and time of my departure up to Him.
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  #65  
Old Jul 4, '12, 3:25 am
Robert Sock Robert Sock is offline
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Default Re: Is the CCC official church doctrine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPRPsych View Post
A bit late in the day, but some fascinating stuff here:

1. The CCC is a "compendium" or "reference book" of official Church Teaching. While much of this is infallible, some of it (such as the sections on science and technology) is more of a reflection on the world we live in, and other parts (such as the section on salvation outside the Church) should be read carefully and with discernment - as one earlier poster pointed out, understanding these may require a fairly in-depth knowledge of theology, Church Tradition and Scripture.

2. About science - Robert, at one level, I completely agree with you. I've been involved in medical research myself, and I know how morally discouraging some of the practices involved can be. But the key here is not to reject the whole based on a few rotten parts.

I'm a psychiatrist myself, and am aware of the chicanery that goes on in drug, therapy and "nutritional supplement" trials. This doesn't mean science is wrong, any more than the existence of Jehovah's Witnesses means the Bible is wrong. Everything in this world, sacred or profane, can be put to good or evil uses. The real problem is not with science per se, but with flawed human beings who care more about publications, papers and earnings than with the true advancement of knowledge for the benefit of mankind. I've personally experienced the "good" side of medical science too often (sometimes to life-saving extents) to dismiss it outright.

3. About an "upper world" - well, to me there's just one upper world, and that's Heaven. (There may be levels in Heaven, as we can probably deduce from 2 Corinthians, but I don't think they count as separate worlds.) But it's worth nothing that several scientists - such as Karl Popper and even the non-theist Roger Penrose - do believe in the existence of a world of Platonic ideals, where scientific and mathematical ideas exist in their "pure form". To me as a Catholic, that world would just be a part or sub-set of Heaven, if it does exist at all.

4. About the wish to die - there's a lot of difference between a saintly wish to be joined to God in Heaven (which we find, for example, in the letters of St. Paul) and the wish to commit suicide, which is sinful. But we must also remember that St. Paul expressed an equal wish to "remain here and continue his work", and that he pointed out that "no man hates his flesh, but loves it and nourishes it." Similarly, in the book of Tobit, both Tobit and Sarah pray for death - but God sends them deliverance and healing instead. Death will come to us at the time that God appoints it - to me, I guess He knows best, and I leave the date and time of my departure up to Him.
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Mark 12:30
‘And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.'
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