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  #1  
Old Jun 8, '12, 7:42 am
Tobias2 Tobias2 is offline
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Default Did gifts end with death of last Apostle?

A co-worker claims this and refers to Acts 8 and Simon.

Is there Scriptual evidence thyat the gifts continue after the death of the Apostles?
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Old Jun 8, '12, 8:18 am
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COPLAND 3 COPLAND 3 is offline
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Default Re: Did gifts end with death of last Apostle?

The Early Church Fathers demonstrate that the gifts did continue, but their necessity faded as time went on. I recommend reading St. Gregory the Great's Dialogues, he gives many examples of miracles that happened in his own time.

The need for certain gifts were greater early on, because the Lord's main purpose was to spread the Gospel. The gifts in themselves were not important compared to the results of those gifts, and that was to establish the Church world wide. The gifts of tongues were needed in order to speak to all people with different languages. Healing was important in order to enhace the faith of those being preached to. Prophecy was needed in order to help teach a faith that was new and demanded supernatural proclamation. But as the Church grew abundantly, the evidence of a vast Body of Christians who devoted their whole life to Christ, with the power of the Gospel message, the NEED for those gifts for the sake of spreading the Gospel was needed less and less. As Bishops and priests were being appointed in all regions and in different languages, the gift of tongues was not needed as often. And the momentum and growth of the Church, which is a convincing evidence in itself, the need to amaze people with great miracles for the sake of faith was not needed as often. The establishment and organization of the teaching office of the Church, the need for prophecy the way it was early on was needed less. But the gifts that we see in the New Testament still happen and are not dead, but their purpose of bringing people to faith is less needed.
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Old Jun 8, '12, 8:26 am
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COPLAND 3 COPLAND 3 is offline
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Default Re: Did gifts end with death of last Apostle?

As a comparison, compare the needs of someone in very early Apostolic times, who had never heard of Christ and never seen the Church because all of that was new to the world, compared to someone who was born into a family who, for generations, had parents and grandparents who were devoted to the Catholic faith, and was raised up going a parish, and had writings and records of Christianity on hand. The needs of each would be different in order to instill the faith. The one born into a faith already established and flourishing would not need radical miracles to convince them, but the one who was living in a world where the Christian faith new and isolated, the works of God through miracles were needed.
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Old Jun 8, '12, 1:09 pm
Todd Easton Todd Easton is offline
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Default Re: Did gifts end with death of last Apostle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias2 View Post
...
Is there Scriptual evidence thyat the gifts continue after the death of the Apostles?
Presumably, the latest book of Sacred Scripture, the Book of Revelation, was written before the death of the last Apostle. Sacred Scripture doesn't record the history of the death of the Apostles, besides James, let alone the history of anything after their deaths. Presumably in a time still yet to come, Revelation 11:3 says two witnesses will be granted the power to prophesy. For the history of what happened after the death of the Apostles, you will need to look beyond Sacred Scripture to other early Christian writings.

Are you asking for Scriptural evidence that someone other than an Apostle laid on hands to impart the Holy Spirit? The best evidence for that is probably Acts 9:17, which says Ananias laid hands on Saul that he might be healed of his blindness and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Ananias is not listed in Scripture as an Apostle.

St. Paul speaks of the gifts fading away and ceasing in 1 Corinthians 13:8 but there he seems to be referring to the time of Christ's Second Coming rather than the death of the Apostles.

Last edited by Todd Easton; Jun 8, '12 at 1:23 pm.
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