Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Feb 14, '12, 12:03 pm
Cursilista Cursilista is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2010
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default Seperation of Church and State

Where is the ACLU when this issue is reversed. The state is intruding on the church. Shouldnt the ACLU be supporting the church in this intrusion by the state? After all they are quick to represent the state when a prayer is said on public property.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Feb 14, '12, 12:08 pm
CMatt25 CMatt25 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: January 15, 2010
Posts: 9,683
Religion: A Christianity that doesn't exclude nor drives liberals away
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursilista View Post
Where is the ACLU when this issue is reversed. The state is intruding on the church. Shouldnt the ACLU be supporting the church in this intrusion by the state? After all they are quick to represent the state when a prayer is said on public property.
By "intruding" I'm assuming you mean the mandate? No because for instance if an employer's religion were to oppose something else in the law, for instance were to oppose paying taxes, in a separation of church and state society there would be legal consequences if they refused to obey and broke the law of the state under the guise that their religious liberty was being taken away. Separation of church and state is a 2 way street. There are laws of a state governing employers that are to be followed as well while we still go about practicing our personal faiths. An employer would not be able to simply say their religion forbids paying a minimum wage, forbids child labor laws, forbids other workplace conditions to be in place under the law. The same goes for the current matter that has so many here in a fury. And still are even with the compromise that now requires insurance companies to pay. You just can't please everyone.

Last edited by CMatt25; Feb 14, '12 at 12:22 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Feb 14, '12, 12:49 pm
Cursilista Cursilista is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2010
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
By "intruding" I'm assuming you mean the mandate? No because for instance if an employer's religion were to oppose something else in the law, for instance were to oppose paying taxes, in a separation of church and state society there would be legal consequences if they refused to obey and broke the law of the state under the guise that their religious liberty was being taken away. Separation of church and state is a 2 way street. There are laws of a state governing employers that are to be followed as well while we still go about practicing our personal faiths. An employer would not be able to simply say their religion forbids paying a minimum wage, forbids child labor laws, forbids other workplace conditions to be in place under the law. The same goes for the current matter that has so many here in a fury. And still are even with the compromise that now requires insurance companies to pay. You just can't please everyone.
Your argument sidesteps the fact that the whole HHS is possibly an infringement on our civil rights. The supreme court is after all going to be hearing a case on this very subject. Apparently enough people and ten state attorney generals feel this way for the case to even be heard. The ACLU though feels that the governments right to enact these laws which infringes on our rights is not to be challenged.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Feb 14, '12, 12:59 pm
Will B's Avatar
Will B Will B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Posts: 488
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMatt25 View Post
By "intruding" I'm assuming you mean the mandate? No because for instance if an employer's religion were to oppose something else in the law, for instance were to oppose paying taxes, in a separation of church and state society there would be legal consequences if they refused to obey and broke the law of the state under the guise that their religious liberty was being taken away. Separation of church and state is a 2 way street. There are laws of a state governing employers that are to be followed as well while we still go about practicing our personal faiths. An employer would not be able to simply say their religion forbids paying a minimum wage, forbids child labor laws, forbids other workplace conditions to be in place under the law. The same goes for the current matter that has so many here in a fury. And still are even with the compromise that now requires insurance companies to pay. You just can't please everyone.
What compromise...

Seems most citizens don't understand the violation of religious Conscience .

Lets try this scenario: Orthodox Jews do not eat pork, they do serve pork, nor do they allow pork in their kitchen. >> Lets say the government says to Orthodox Jewish hospitals and universities "Your non-Jewish employees, students and patients have the right to eat pork. Your must buy pork and serve it to all non-Jewish personnel" The rabies and faithful object.. The government backs down and says they will compromise.. "You don't have to buy the pork, we will have non-Jewish providers buy the pork, you only have to serve the pork"

Serving pork if a violation of religious conscience to those of the Orthodox Jewish faith..

Serving contraception or providing it, regardless of who pays, is a violation of religious conscience to Catholics and some other Christian faiths.
__________________


Will B.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Feb 14, '12, 1:02 pm
Michael C Michael C is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 2, 2004
Posts: 2,726
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

I'm at the point where I think the Churches should stop flying the american flag. Throw the state out of the churches.

Teach the kids thoroughly about limited government in Catholic schools.

Just a pipe dream....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Feb 14, '12, 1:03 pm
Luigi Daniele's Avatar
Luigi Daniele Luigi Daniele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2007
Posts: 8,447
Religion: Roman Catholic (Oblate of St Benedict-MotRC)
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Show me in the Constitution or the Declaration where it says "separation of Church and Stare". I can find no establishment of a religion, but can't seem to find the separation thing.
__________________
ORA et LABORA-ut in omnibus glorifectur Deus

<--click
Totus Tuus
Cacciatore/Fungaiolo
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Feb 14, '12, 1:26 pm
ricofall ricofall is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2011
Posts: 322
Religion: Catholic every day
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele View Post
Show me in the Constitution or the Declaration where it says "separation of Church and Stare". I can find no establishment of a religion, but can't seem to find the separation thing.
The separation of Church and 'stare' is not in any document.

However, the separation of Church and State phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson and the first time in the Supreme Court Ruling Reynolds vs US 1879.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Feb 14, '12, 1:50 pm
Luigi Daniele's Avatar
Luigi Daniele Luigi Daniele is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2007
Posts: 8,447
Religion: Roman Catholic (Oblate of St Benedict-MotRC)
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricofall View Post
The separation of Church and 'stare' is not in any document.

However, the separation of Church and State phrase was used by Thomas Jefferson and the first time in the Supreme Court Ruling Reynolds vs US 1879.

Oops

It was a rhetorical question, actually. I tire of hearing separation of church and state, when it is not in any of our founding documents
__________________
ORA et LABORA-ut in omnibus glorifectur Deus

<--click
Totus Tuus
Cacciatore/Fungaiolo
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Feb 14, '12, 4:31 pm
Cursilista Cursilista is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2010
Posts: 111
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Seperation of Church and State

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Daniele View Post
Oops

It was a rhetorical question, actually. I tire of hearing separation of church and state, when it is not in any of our founding documents
and im fully aware of this as well. The only reason i used it as the title was to point out to those like the ACLU, who uses that pharse to take faith out of the classroom, where are they when the roles are reversed. Why arent they defending the individuals rights against the infringement of government.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Social Justice

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8259Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: janiejnb
5022CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4346Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: FootStool
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3835SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3572Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3233Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3207Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Chast Forever
3139Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3049For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 9:32 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.