Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Jul 4, '12, 8:50 am
CWN News CWN News is offline
CAF News Bot
 
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Posts: 5,008
Default Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

Pope Benedict XVI has strongly signaled his support for Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in a highly unusual gesture clearly designed to end speculation that the Secretary of State might be ...

More...
__________________
This is an automated news feed from a generally-reliable Catholic source. Should the content fall outside CAF guidelines, please do not hesitate to report it using the Report Post icon.

* * * * * * * * *

Discussion welcomed and encouraged.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Jul 4, '12, 9:27 pm
OriginalJS OriginalJS is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2004
Posts: 1,487
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

This has to be understood in light of the furor that has erupted over the "Vatileaks" skirmishes. From my limited reading, it appears that this kerfluffle is creating a lot more news in Europe than in the US. I think the Vatican may have hired a PR expert to handle further communications. I understand the Pope's valet may still be incarcerated after certain of the Pope's personal papers were found in his living quarters.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Jul 5, '12, 9:17 am
ringil ringil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2011
Posts: 7,580
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

messy, messy.

I would think that the Pope should only have religious that close to him- preferably from a cloistered order. Is that even possible?
__________________
To those with only hammers everything looks like a nail.

"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Jul 5, '12, 12:46 pm
The_Scott's Avatar
The_Scott The_Scott is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: July 9, 2010
Posts: 1,341
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringil View Post
messy, messy.

I would think that the Pope should only have religious that close to him- preferably from a cloistered order. Is that even possible?
The problem with that idea is that the cloistered religious may not be good politicians. That's the problem, really, with the Papal States throughout history (note: I'm not saying the Vatican State shouldn't exist; I think it should).

The sovereign Vatican has a dilemma: it must be both religiously and politically pure as it can be. All other countries only needs a great administration, not necessarily a pious person, to successfully lead the country. The Vatican is held on two standards here, whereas everyone else would be judged only on one.

Throughout history, the Papal States have had absolutely moral and saintly men: Paschal I and Celestine V, for example. Clement VII, upon becoming pope, sent envoys to France, Spain, and England to stop the war. He didn't annul Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine of Aragon despite immense pressure of schism. Unfortunately, they were terrible administrators. Celestine V resigned, recognizing that he could not be in such a position. Clement VII was partially responsible for the Germans sacking Rome in 1527.

On the other hand, the Papal States have been led by amazing administrators. Innocent III was the greatest politician during the thirteenth century. He withstood the pressure from King John of England, he called and oversaw the Fourth Lateran Council (perhaps the greatest Council until the Council of Trent in the 17th century), he was one of the players of creating a standardized book of canon law, and so on. However, he launched the Albigensian Crusade which led to the massacre of many innocent people. Alexander VI - the Borgia Pope - was also a great administrator for the Papal States: he protected the area from French and Italian forces, and many other areas of politics. Unfortunately, because of him, the name Borgia has become a synonym for corruption - he gave his sons very high ranking places in Papal politics, he murdered Dominican friar Girolamo Savonarola because of the latter's criticism of his papacy, and his son effectively made the Papal Palace a whorehouse for a party. Not exactly the best pastor in the world.

I apologize for the length, but my point is that being "holy" in the Vatican isn't necessarily the best thing for the State. By no means am I saying that being holy and being a politician are mutually exclusive, but I think it would be pretty difficult. Yes, there have been popes who have been holy politicians - Pius XII and John Paul II immediately come to mind. The cloistered religious that you propose accompany the pope as Secretary of State may not know the first thing about being a politician on an international scale, which may cause even more scandal than Cardinal Bertone has.

Just my two cents; I'm welcome to criticism!
__________________
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
Scott
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Jul 6, '12, 9:36 am
ringil ringil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2011
Posts: 7,580
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Scott View Post
The problem with that idea is that the cloistered religious may not be good politicians. That's the problem, really, with the Papal States throughout history (note: I'm not saying the Vatican State shouldn't exist; I think it should).

The sovereign Vatican has a dilemma: it must be both religiously and politically pure as it can be. All other countries only needs a great administration, not necessarily a pious person, to successfully lead the country. The Vatican is held on two standards here, whereas everyone else would be judged only on one.

Throughout history, the Papal States have had absolutely moral and saintly men: Paschal I and Celestine V, for example. Clement VII, upon becoming pope, sent envoys to France, Spain, and England to stop the war. He didn't annul Henry VIII's marriage to Catherine of Aragon despite immense pressure of schism. Unfortunately, they were terrible administrators. Celestine V resigned, recognizing that he could not be in such a position. Clement VII was partially responsible for the Germans sacking Rome in 1527.

On the other hand, the Papal States have been led by amazing administrators. Innocent III was the greatest politician during the thirteenth century. He withstood the pressure from King John of England, he called and oversaw the Fourth Lateran Council (perhaps the greatest Council until the Council of Trent in the 17th century), he was one of the players of creating a standardized book of canon law, and so on. However, he launched the Albigensian Crusade which led to the massacre of many innocent people. Alexander VI - the Borgia Pope - was also a great administrator for the Papal States: he protected the area from French and Italian forces, and many other areas of politics. Unfortunately, because of him, the name Borgia has become a synonym for corruption - he gave his sons very high ranking places in Papal politics, he murdered Dominican friar Girolamo Savonarola because of the latter's criticism of his papacy, and his son effectively made the Papal Palace a whorehouse for a party. Not exactly the best pastor in the world.

I apologize for the length, but my point is that being "holy" in the Vatican isn't necessarily the best thing for the State. By no means am I saying that being holy and being a politician are mutually exclusive, but I think it would be pretty difficult. Yes, there have been popes who have been holy politicians - Pius XII and John Paul II immediately come to mind. The cloistered religious that you propose accompany the pope as Secretary of State may not know the first thing about being a politician on an international scale, which may cause even more scandal than Cardinal Bertone has.

Just my two cents; I'm welcome to criticism!
But I'm only speaking of those (like this laymen who leaked the material) who have intimate access to the Popes actual office. I read- perhaps incorrectly, that only a few nuns and this fellow actually had the keys. That's the level of intimacy I'm suggested could be free of laymen. I am not sure but I don't believe this guy have any significant political role.

Maybe not possible? I don't know.
__________________
To those with only hammers everything looks like a nail.

"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Jul 6, '12, 11:59 am
The_Scott's Avatar
The_Scott The_Scott is offline
Regular Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: July 9, 2010
Posts: 1,341
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ringil View Post
But I'm only speaking of those (like this laymen who leaked the material) who have intimate access to the Popes actual office. I read- perhaps incorrectly, that only a few nuns and this fellow actually had the keys. That's the level of intimacy I'm suggested could be free of laymen. I am not sure but I don't believe this guy have any significant political role.

Maybe not possible? I don't know.
I apologize. I thought you were talking about Secretary of State Cardinal Bertone, not the papal butler.
__________________
Sincerely Yours in Christ,
Scott
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa...


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Jul 6, '12, 1:12 pm
ringil ringil is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2011
Posts: 7,580
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Pope sends a message: Cardinal Bertone will stay [CWN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Scott View Post
I apologize. I thought you were talking about Secretary of State Cardinal Bertone, not the papal butler.
No problemo.
__________________
To those with only hammers everything looks like a nail.

"tough love thy neighbor as thyself. Get your own loaves and fishes!"- Stephen Colbert
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > In The News > Catholic News

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8249Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5013CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4344Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: James_OPL
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3831SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3562Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3224Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3203Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: memphian
3115Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3047For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:16 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.