Question: Pope John Paul II 1995 prayer

[Koineman]

[quote=pablope;9296867]

I thought I had to look at some old prayers....it looks like this was shortened.

This is usually written as......Grant, we beseech Thee, Almighty God,..........that all who believe in your Son may proclaim the Gospel of life with honesty and love to the people of our time.

Thanks for pointing that out. I tried finding the same prayer to Mary worded the way you have it, but I couldn't find any.

Thanks to everyone else for your posts. The Marian doctrines are tough for me, to be honest. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Mary, being the "Queen Mother," can get whatever she wants from Christ because that would fly in the face of divine sovereignty, that God the Creator must bow to the will of the created. Furthermore, comparing God's rule with that of human rulers is questionable, IMO. In fact, God warned the Israelites (1 Samuel 8) that they would end up wanting deliverance from a king, thus implying that earthly rule is fraught with abuses. To me, then, it seems precarious to hold up the attitude of a human king toward his mother as somehow reflecting what goes on in heaven between Christ and Mary.

[Todd Easton]

Originally Posted by Koineman

...I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Mary, being the "Queen Mother," can get whatever she wants from Christ because that would fly in the face of divine sovereignty, that God the Creator must bow to the will of the created. ...

By choosing to be born of the Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ forever bound himself to honor her and to be obedient to her. (Luke 2:51) However, this should not be a cause for concern since the Virgin Mary, like all the other saints in heaven, is perfectly attuned to the will of God and can neither desire nor request anything contrary to His will because to do so would be a sin and there is no sin in heaven.

[pablope]

[quote][quote=Koineman;9301915]

Originally Posted by pablope

Thanks for pointing that out. I tried finding the same prayer to Mary worded the way you have it, but I couldn't find any.

You are welcome.......!

Here is a sample...the end prayer of the rosary......Rosary Prayer

(Verse) Let us pray,
(Response) O God, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal salvation. Grant, we beseech Thee, that while meditating on these mysteries of the most holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, that we may both imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray. Grant, we beseech Thee, O Lord God, that we thy servants may enjoy perpetual health of mind and body, and by the glorious intercession of blessed Mary, ever Virgin, may we be freed from present sorrow, and rejoice in eternal happiness. Through Christ our Lord. R. Amen.

. Thou gavest birth without loss of thy virginity.
R. Intercede for us, O holy Mother of God.

Let us pray. O God, Who by the fruitful virginity of blessed Mary hast offered unto the human race the rewards of eternal salvation, grant, we beseech thee, that we may know the effects of her intercession, through whom we have deserved to receive the author of life, our Lord Jesus Christ, Thy Son. R. Amen

V. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary, alleluia.
R. For the Lord is truely risen, alleluia.

Let us pray. O God, Who by the resurrection of Thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, hast vouchsafed to make glad the whole world, grant, we beseech Thee, that through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, His mother, we may attain the joys of eternal life, through the same Christ our Lord. R. Amen.

Thanks to everyone else for your posts. The Marian doctrines are tough for me, to be honest.

Hmmmm...You are not alone...alot of protestant converts took time before they could accept the Marian dogmas....but through the grace of God, understanding, continued seeking...they eventually overcame their concerns and worries.

A short homily from JPII:http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm49.htm

A book recommendation...from a protestant convert....Hahn's Hail Holy Queen:

http://www.amazon.com/Hail-Holy-Quee.../dp/0385501692

Most Christians know that the life of Jesus is foreshadowed throughout the Old Testament. Through a close examination of the Bible, as well as the work of both Catholic and Protestant scholars and clergy, Hahn brings to light the small but significant details showing that just as Jesus is the "New Adam," so Mary is the "New Eve." He unveils the Marian mystery at the heart of the Book of Revelation and reveals how it is foretold in the very first pages of the Book of Genesis and in the story of King David's monarchy, which speaks of a privileged place for the mother of the king.

Building on these scriptural and historical foundations, Hahn presents a new look at the Marian doctrines: Her Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, Assumption, and Coronation. As he guides modern-day readers through passages filled with mysteries and poetry, Hahn helps them rediscover the ancient art and science of reading the Scriptures and gain a more profound understanding of their truthfulness and relevance to faith and the practice of religion in the contemporary world.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Mary, being the "Queen Mother," can get whatever she wants from Christ because that would fly in the face of divine sovereignty, that God the Creator must bow to the will of the created.

I think you have some misconceptions here. The Church does not teach that Mary can get whateve she wants.....it is only through the will of God that what Mary asks can be granted....God is ultimately the grantor of such wishes.

Furthermore, comparing God's rule with that of human rulers is questionable, IMO. In fact, God warned the Israelites (1 Samuel 8) that they would end up wanting deliverance from a king, thus implying that earthly rule is fraught with abuses. To me, then, it seems precarious to hold up the attitude of a human king toward his mother as somehow reflecting what goes on in heaven between Christ and Mary.

The Davidic kingdom is the model of the Church.....with Christ as the king.

[snarflemike]

[quote=Koineman;9301915]

Originally Posted by pablope

Thanks to everyone else for your posts. The Marian doctrines are tough for me, to be honest. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Mary, being the "Queen Mother," can get whatever she wants from Christ because that would fly in the face of divine sovereignty, that God the Creator must bow to the will of the created.

But you forget that our wills are perfectly aligned with God's will in heaven. We will ONLY want what God wants. God doesn't change, we change.

[Koineman]

Originally Posted by pablope

Thanks for the recommendations. I was already thinking of picking up Hahn's book Rome Sweet Home, but I may add this one to the list, too.

[i]Most Christians know that the life of Jesus is foreshadowed throughout the Old Testament. Through a close examination of the Bible, as well as the work of both Catholic and Protestant scholars and clergy, Hahn brings to light the small but significant details showing that just as Jesus is the "New Adam," so Mary is the "New Eve." He unveils the Marian mystery at the heart of the Book of Revelation

The passage from Revelation depicting Mary with the crown of stars is definitely worth looking at closer.

I think you have some misconceptions here. The Church does not teach that Mary can get whateve she wants.....it is only through the will of God that what Mary asks can be granted....God is ultimately the grantor of such wishes.

Okay, thanks for clarifying that. The way some others posted, it sounded otherwise.

[pablope]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Koineman

Thanks for the recommendations. I was already thinking of picking up Hahn's book Rome Sweet Home, but I may add this one to the list, too.

That is a good book to start with. He recounts his difficulties....starting with John 6, and of course, Mary.


Suggestion is to try your public library, if you have access.

The passage from Revelation depicting Mary with the crown of stars is definitely worth looking at closer.


Okay, thanks for clarifying that. The way some others posted, it sounded otherwise.

Sometimes...it is catholic speak or lingo...we forget to explain what we are trying to say....

You're welcome...and God bless in your search.

[Credo in Deum]

Originally Posted by Koineman

. I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Mary, being the "Queen Mother," can get whatever she wants from Christ because that would fly in the face of divine sovereignty, that God the Creator must bow to the will of the created.

I think we have to keep in mind there is a big difference between saying God has to do things and God chooses to do things. God is still almighty and can do anything; yet this fact doesn't mean we should ignore the ways in which He chooses to do things. If God wanted to he could have wiped away all sin by waving one figure; however, He chose to suffer for our sins and die for us. Does this death take anything away from God's almighty power? God could have made the NT scriptures appear out of thin air; however, he chose to have his apostles and disciples write them under his guidance and inspiration.

We Catholics honor Mary as queen and mother because God chose her to be our queen and mother. Let’s not forget we are called to honor our mother.

Originally Posted by Koineman

. Furthermore, comparing God's rule with that of human rulers is questionable, IMO. In fact, God warned the Israelites (1 Samuel 8) that they would end up wanting deliverance from a king, thus implying that earthly rule is fraught with abuses. To me, then, it seems precarious to hold up the attitude of a human king toward his mother as somehow reflecting what goes on in heaven between Christ and Mary.

I don't think it’s wrong simply because anything we do well we do in imitation of God who is goodness itself. God can never be said to imitate a good human king, but rather it is the good human king who imitates the King of Kings; God. It is because of this we can rightly reason that anything a good king does; God does in like manner because what good is there that is not of God?

We were made in the image of God, it is only logical that with God's grace we are able to imitate him.