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  #61  
Old Oct 14, '13, 10:48 am
TX_Knight TX_Knight is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaxbogs View Post
Sure you can find "bad apples" in any ministry. If I let the MANY "bad apples" who called themselves Catholic influence me, I would have never converted.
I agree that there could be bad apples in any group, but when do you consider it to be too many? What if these bad apples are occurring at more than one location? A majority I have seen come back the same as they were before, but I have not seen any return from these retreats as better people and have seen several come back acting less Catholic Christian than they did before the retreats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaxbogs View Post
ACTS is a cult? That's a real stretch.
ACTS meets the dictionary definition of cult, as I posted earlier – and not one person has specifically denied any of the definitions. The cloud of secrecy around ACTS does not help denounce the cult image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkiedad View Post
At an ACTS retreat, everybody goes in a bus, although some of the team members bring their cars.
The ACTS retreats in my area do not provide transportation. You pre-pay to attend. You pay your own transportation. You pay.

Why would a legitimate retreat charge attendees fees and make attendees pay all their own expenses? Shouldn’t the focus be on helping people become better Catholic Christians rather than being on the dollar sign? Or is salvation only for those with the money to buy it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkiedad View Post
However, you really cannot make a determination unless you've actually attended an ACTS retreat.
Hmmmmm . . . just more secrecy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
There isn't anything secretive about the process or what goes on at the retreat though.
Those that have attended retreats in this area (from more than one parish) say they were told they cannot talk about ANYthing from the retreat. 100% secrecy. All we know is that they go, can only use their cell phones in the evening, then return with an attitude that they are better than those that haven’t paid the dollars and been to a retreat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryjk View Post
My intent is to have anyone considering a Cursillo or ACTS weekend, to be fully informed about what happens there.
Exactly! :-) But the whole secrecy of ACTS prevents people from knowing until they are already there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryjk View Post
If you read through the other thread, you will find that there were people that wanted to leave. But they couldn't. They weren't allowed to have a car, so they couldn't drive themselves. They didn't have a phone to call for a ride. And when they asked that someone else do so, it took hours for the ride to materialize.
VERY characteristic of cults and communes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angieAugustina View Post
So, if you've got doubts about something Catholic, besides the above, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE.
But, as Catholic Christians, isn’t part of our responsibility to help protect others from going astray? Using your logic, it would be okay to let someone walk in front of a bus as long as you didn’t walk in front of it yourself.

On its own website, the Knights of Columbus explains that it was founded when Father McGivney “proposed establishing a lay organization, the goal of which would be to prevent Catholic men from entering secret societies whose membership was antithetical to Church teaching, to unite men of Catholic faith and to provide for the families of deceased members.” Father McGivney could have simply chosen to not participate, but he chose to protect fellow Catholics from “secret societies”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanramsey View Post
I have tried to get a better understanding about ACTS but since it is so secretive it is hard. My wife just returned from the retreat Sunday and from what I can gather from her, this retreat makes no sense.
How do you deepen your faith by taking a person on an emotional roller coaster? If one is suppose to be getting in touch with the Holy Spirit, why is control over the participants so strong? No watches, no car, no contact at anytime with family members except when allowed by the coordinators?
Purposely messing with one's emotion as a way to deepen faith makes no sense. Can you not achieve the goals without having to control participants to such this degree?
One other question is, if the participants are suppose to evangelize the faith after attending the retreat, how were they prepared for this? Do not the bracelets suppose to symbolize fisherman of men?
ACTS sounds to me to be a retreat where emotions play a big part.
“secretive” Too secretive.

That is what the bracelet are supposed to symbolize, but they have become an idol that has replaced Catholic Christian action. A symbol so the attendees can recognize each other in public.

Taking people on emotional roller coasters weakens them and makes them more susceptible to suggestion and control. Ask anyone that has been a POW or been through POW training.
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  #62  
Old Oct 14, '13, 10:53 am
TX_Knight TX_Knight is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

I sent a message to ACTS through its website, asking specific questions.

It has been over a week with no response.

Why do they not respond? More secrecy?
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  #63  
Old Oct 14, '13, 5:06 pm
ajaxbogs ajaxbogs is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

I'm leary of non-clergy who feel it is their "job" to warn the faithful of their definition of "heresy", especially without the backing of the Church (i.e. lone ranger). If all that TulsaVic & angieAugustina have blogged is true (no reason to doubt it) especially the FACT that ACTS is endosed by some Bishops, let it go man! So it ain't your cup of tea; no reason to dredge up & exagerate to try to prove yourself right. In fact this behavior can actually get people interested. There are organizations in the Church that I keep my distance from, but I know they build up those who participate in them.

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear..." I Jn 4:18
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  #64  
Old Oct 14, '13, 5:19 pm
ajaxbogs ajaxbogs is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by angieAugustina View Post
ok ok everybody...
it is unfortunate that certain individuals have experienced hurtful or negative things that they attribute as results of others who attend an event or join a group. However, can we agree that retreats, Church groups (Altar Society, K of C, etc.) and let's face it, even praying the rosary are not even necessary to be a good practicing Catholic? there are 5 Precepts we are called to follow, the Creed and a handful of dogmas. Jesus Himself plainly laid it out for us in the Great Commandment.
So, if you've got doubts about something Catholic, besides the above, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. you may keep your minor children from it, and by all means your right to do so should never be curtailed. the forum is the appropriate place to lend your voice and opinion. not sure it is ever good for the soul to succumb to the temptation of communicating such vitriol as i have seen here on this subject.
no, i am not perfect--by any means! i rely on His mercy. But we have to keep in kind that the Church Jesus established is more a hospital for souls of sinners, than a stage for saints to perform on. Pray for those you feel are going astray (including me!) and i will lift up in prayer all who have contributed to this thread. btw i will be praying in Adoration, in Community, keeping in mind solid Theology of Scripture and the Fathers of the Church, as loving Service to His children here in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
Amen!
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  #65  
Old Oct 15, '13, 2:03 pm
TX_Knight TX_Knight is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaxbogs View Post
I'm leary of non-clergy who feel it is their "job" to warn the faithful of their definition of "heresy", especially without the backing of the Church (i.e. lone ranger). If all that TulsaVic & angieAugustina have blogged is true (no reason to doubt it) especially the FACT that ACTS is endosed by some Bishops, let it go man! So it ain't your cup of tea; no reason to dredge up & exagerate to try to prove yourself right.
So far only one person has shown me where only ONE bishop has endorsed ACTS. The other claim of an endorsement was actually just a letter encouraging ACTS to do the right thing, not an endorsement. Why doesn't the Pope endorse ACTS?

Show me where I exaggerate. Show me where I used the word "heresy". You're simply trying to twist my words to meet your needs. Why do you feel TulsaVic and angieAugustina are more correct than me?

Why should it only be the responsibility of the clergy to help others? ACTS leaders are non-clergy. Do you apply a different standard to me than to them since I am not one of them? (Applying a dual standard is, from what I have personally witnessed, is characteristic of an ACTS attendee.) True, I am "non-clergy", but so were many other people in history that helped people avoid misguidance. Using your logic, if you came across a traffic accident, you couldn't help but would have to say, "I'm non-EMS so I can't help you."?

So, are you saying I should turn a blind eye to people being led away from Catholic Christian faith by "non-clergy" leadership?
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  #66  
Old Oct 15, '13, 4:58 pm
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Allegra Allegra is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Knight View Post
So far only one person has shown me where only ONE bishop has endorsed ACTS. The other claim of an endorsement was actually just a letter encouraging ACTS to do the right thing, not an endorsement. Why doesn't the Pope endorse ACTS?

Show me where I exaggerate. Show me where I used the word "heresy". You're simply trying to twist my words to meet your needs. Why do you feel TulsaVic and angieAugustina are more correct than me?

Why should it only be the responsibility of the clergy to help others? ACTS leaders are non-clergy. Do you apply a different standard to me than to them since I am not one of them? (Applying a dual standard is, from what I have personally witnessed, is characteristic of an ACTS attendee.) True, I am "non-clergy", but so were many other people in history that helped people avoid misguidance. Using your logic, if you came across a traffic accident, you couldn't help but would have to say, "I'm non-EMS so I can't help you."?

So, are you saying I should turn a blind eye to people being led away from Catholic Christian faith by "non-clergy" leadership?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't find your evidence compelling. But for the cost and my inability to easily take off on a friday, I would probably still attend an ACTS retreat. Frankly, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder because of the way your brother treated you. I don't see that same effect from the dozens of other people I know who have gone on the retreat.
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  #67  
Old Oct 16, '13, 7:03 am
TX_Knight TX_Knight is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't find your evidence compelling. But for the cost and my inability to easily take off on a friday, I would probably still attend an ACTS retreat. Frankly, it sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder because of the way your brother treated you. I don't see that same effect from the dozens of other people I know who have gone on the retreat.
If it was just my brother, it would be one thing. The situation with my brother brought the bigger picture to my attention and a year's worth of observations and research. Observations of attendees from different parishes that went on different retreats. If it was only my brother waiving his bracelet in people's faces, it would be different, but it's not just him. More attendees than not recruit heavily, insisting that you are not a better person unless you attend. More attendees than not are keeping everything about the retreat secretive. More attendees than not look down on non-attendees as lesser people.

You wrote "but for the cost". Several commenters on this thread have talked about the cost and questioned it. Why would an organization to help people become better Christians charge? Should only those with money be saved? Other than reasonable costs for meals and other necessities, I have not seen any other legitimate organization charge for participation. Where does this money go? Does the leadership at the ACTS headquarters get a salary? If so, how much?

I'll try contacting the ACTS main offices, but I don't really expect any different than the previous lack of reply to my basic questions.

Last edited by TX_Knight; Oct 16, '13 at 7:05 am. Reason: correct spelling typo
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  #68  
Old Oct 16, '13, 4:53 pm
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Allegra Allegra is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Knight View Post
If it was just my brother, it would be one thing. The situation with my brother brought the bigger picture to my attention and a year's worth of observations and research. Observations of attendees from different parishes that went on different retreats. If it was only my brother waiving his bracelet in people's faces, it would be different, but it's not just him. More attendees than not recruit heavily, insisting that you are not a better person unless you attend. More attendees than not are keeping everything about the retreat secretive. More attendees than not look down on non-attendees as lesser people.

You wrote "but for the cost". Several commenters on this thread have talked about the cost and questioned it. Why would an organization to help people become better Christians charge? Should only those with money be saved? Other than reasonable costs for meals and other necessities, I have not seen any other legitimate organization charge for participation. Where does this money go? Does the leadership at the ACTS headquarters get a salary? If so, how much?

I'll try contacting the ACTS main offices, but I don't really expect any different than the previous lack of reply to my basic questions.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that an ACTS retreat is necessary for salvation. What people do say is that it is an opportunity to grow in faith and build relationships with fellow Catholics. I believe the cost of the retreat at our parish is around $250. I do not believe the cost is associated with "ACTS headquarters", if such a place even exists. Based on my experience with planning a CHRP retreat, we estimated the cost for each participant at around $125 per attendant and team member. That included the cost for materials, food, decorations, a stipend for the Mass organist and the visiting priests who helped with confession, licensing to use and reproduce the music, and various other costs. The cost was paid for by donations made by parish members and particularly previous CRHP attendants and team members. The a retreat attendents were not asked to pay anything, though most do make a donation after the retreat is over, for the purpose of the next retreat. The ACTS retreat is two nights longer than the CHRP retreat, so the cost doesn't seem that far outside the realm of reality. Most retreats of which I've heard have some cost associated with them.
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  #69  
Old Oct 16, '13, 7:43 pm
Mercy1968 Mercy1968 is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

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Originally Posted by TX_Knight View Post
If you are considering going on an ACTS retreat, please look in your heart as to what is important to being a good Catholic Christian before making your decision. Several of my relatives and fellow parishioners have attended ACTS retreats. The following is what I have learned by observing them after their return.

1. They will try to recruit you with the same aggressiveness as a stereotypical Amway sales rep recruiting more sales reps.

2. It is very, very important to show off the cheap trinkets, especially the bracelet made out of fishing swivels. Flaunting that bracelet is more important than being a good Catholic Christian.

3. Hanging out with ACTS buddies is more important than taking care of your own family, to include being with family members in the hospital facing death.

4. Selfishness replaces helpfulness.

5. I have found NO endorsement of ACTS by any bishop, any cardinal, or the Pope.

6. ACTS is run by a group of individuals and is NOT affiliated with the Catholic Church – or any church.

To me, the atmosphere among them is more like a cult than that of a true Catholic Christian. Either you are one of them or you are less than them.

Ask yourself, what is more important – being a good Catholic Christian or belonging to a cult.
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  #70  
Old Oct 16, '13, 7:47 pm
Mercy1968 Mercy1968 is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

I've attended a few X retreat and while I received a lot from it the more I researched it I found it was run by an extreme leftist part of the church based in San Antonio: Acts mission they are associated with the college called the oblate school of theology that has no problem with these condoms in the prevention of AIDS almost $500,000 is made in leave by this group with over 65% 80% of that going towards salaries and payroll any charitable foundation should not be making more than a third according to foundation guidelines to pay salaries Walder heart seems to be in the right place they are using poor theology and are unwilling to tackle difficult subject matter or to teach their brothers and sisters about true theology because it might make them feel uncomfortable they have done a good job bringing people back into the church and helping them with their spirituality unfortunately they are extremely poorly educated about it comes to the laws about church and refuse to do anything about those laws when they are informed of them and kill major items are addressed but this will intention group especially on local level being well-intentioned I would never suggest someone got this retreat
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  #71  
Old Oct 17, '13, 3:44 pm
thequeen thequeen is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

I went on an acts retreat and it was good for me yes there are things that I refuse to discuss because I respect the privacy of others people who went on the retreat with me They were very understanding about my diabetic issues so I was allowed to keep my phone in case I needed to phone my doctor and I was allowed to keep my insulin with me and they made sure that I had plenty of snacks and I have made many good friends from the acts movement.
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  #72  
Old Oct 17, '13, 3:51 pm
maryjk maryjk is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

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I went on an acts retreat and it was good for me yes there are things that I refuse to discuss because I respect the privacy of others people who went on the retreat with me They were very understanding about my diabetic issues so I was allowed to keep my phone in case I needed to phone my doctor and I was allowed to keep my insulin with me and they made sure that I had plenty of snacks and I have made many good friends from the acts movement.


Maybe it is just the way you posted it, but "allowed" to keep your phone?

You have a serious medical issue. But it seems you needed permission to keep your own phone.

Of course that is how it worked for Cursillo, as well. I was told, if I went, that I would be "allowed" to drive. But they couldn't allow me to keep my phone.
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  #73  
Old Oct 21, '13, 12:13 pm
Hembra Hembra is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

First I must say that the ACTS retreat is like anything else organized and carried out by human beings. It will never be perfect for that reason. That said for some it will be a wonderful experience and for others it will be very negative. There is a secrecy to it which I understand the reason for but it's that secrecy that can cause it to be a very negative experience for some people. It's definitely not the retreat to attend for some people. While I got to know 40 some odd women in my parish so much better, the overall outcome of my personal participation as a retreatant was very negative, to the point that I am currently going through a sort of mourning process. While I will respect their wishes not to share the "program" suffice it to say that if you are one who is questioning your faith , beliefs; or have doubts and go to attempt to become renewed, it may backfire. If you find solace in "going through the motions" of Catholic "pagentry" [for lack of being able right now to find any other analogy] even without being able to maintain that concrete belief but it is enough to hang on to the strong belief of community and service the church structure provides, it may not be wise to participate as it may leave you in a state of mourning wondering what do I do now when parts of the process was so different and put you out of your comfort zone. It may end up making you feel like an imposter within your own parish...but who do you share that with? You don't want to make the good people who worked so hard to try to make this a good experience. You don't want to share it with other retreatants who seemed to have such a positive experience to put a "wet blanket" on their experience. You may not even want to share your experience with your pastor as it may impact your access to parts of the church that serves to comfort you. You don't want to bad mouth the retreat as a whole because there were some really good portions within it that were inspiring on a personal level that enables you to achieve more and do more good works. I am not sure what the answer is but I do feel that more specifics need to be shared when it's being advertised so maybe some who have doubts about their beliefs but yet have remained active in their parish because of the belief that the church and the people in it have an extremely important positive impact on individuals and society, should maybe pass this one by and seek other ways to connect to the members of the parish and the Church. Was the ACTS retreat a success? It depends from your point of view. For the parish, yes. I'm sure that it will cause some to become more active. For me however it was devastating. I have had solace solely from being part of a community and the shared beliefs only reached to the good works and that now was not enough. Suddenly I was an outsider. I was better off without this "enlightenment" for the message of continuing to just go through the motions was clearly seen as not enough to participate fully...at least at the individual retreat I attended. Do I stick it out and continue to try to believe and refrain from taking sacraments now that I realize I am an unbeliever though I've tried for so many years, or do I continue to wear the mask of a believer now that I truly know I don't believe and participate and serve as an imposter? A really sad situation for me personally.
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  #74  
Old Oct 24, '13, 5:46 pm
thequeen thequeen is offline
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Default Re: Are you considering participation in an ACTS retreat?

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Originally Posted by maryjk View Post


Maybe it is just the way you posted it, but "allowed" to keep your phone?

You have a serious medical issue. But it seems you needed permission to keep your own phone.

Of course that is how it worked for Cursillo, as well. I was told, if I went, that I would be "allowed" to drive. But they couldn't allow me to keep my phone.

Maybe I should have said I was able to keep my phone however they were not controlling I was able to do whatever I needed to take care of my type 1 diabetes they were also very helpful when I had a low blood sugar drop and made sure that there were always juice around and other snacks around.
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