Rejecting the faith...in part

[JDaniel]

Originally Posted by Don Jackson

I think too often we equate "the faith" with canon law, dogma, precepts, etc., instead of with Christianity.

I have several disagreements with the Church, but still consider myself to be very Catholic.

My contention is, disagreement with the Church is not an issue, acting out that disagreement is.

For instance:

I disagree that not attending Mass on every Sunday is a sin. I do, however, attend Mass on every Sunday (or Saturday vigil if Sunday is a problem). But I do not see attendance at Sunday Mass as an OBLIGATION, I rather see it as a privilege.

Don:

So . . . when one of the Ten Commandments was "Remember, keep holy the Sabbath," God didn't really mean that. Instead, what he meant was, "Remember, if you, according to your exquisite whim, want to keep holy the Sabbath," then do so. Otherwise, don't worry about it?

(I can't say that I've never embraced that, because I have. Much to my chagrin.)

[Gorgias]

Originally Posted by ThinkingSapien

But doesn't that dilute what it means to be a Catholic?

One other thing just occurred to me: if it weren't this way, then that would dilute what it means to be baptized...!

[ThinkingSapien]

Originally Posted by Gorgias

One other thing just occurred to me: if it weren't this way, then that would dilute what it means to be baptized...!

Originally Posted by dmelosi

Perhaps now you might understand what it means to be on a spiritual journey and that the more you understand and know the our faith[...]

Thanks for the explanations!

[Sair]

Originally Posted by Gorgias

I don't think so. Being Catholic doesn't mean "I've got everything figured out", or even "I'm a good little religious robot"; rather, it means "I find value and truth in the Church, and am willing to grow in my faith" (even if this willingness is implicit and not explicitly stated -- a "this is stupid!" made in the context of sticking around is very different than a "this is stupid" made in the context of walking away from the Church)...!

I think that an adult and considered approach to any faith or philosophy of life involves the kind of commitment you mention - a willingness to explore and embrace, even if you find yourself questioning particular ideas or practices. Even if you take to a certain teaching with a good deal of scepticism, it's still possible to say to yourself, "Well, perhaps if I make an honest attempt to follow this, it will make more sense than it does at face value."

[fhansen]

Originally Posted by Sair

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

That's why I left as a youth.

Originally Posted by Sair

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

I think all of the above are reasons some people stay. I never loved being Catholic for the sake of being Catholic. If it sounds a bit ironic, there seem to be lots of traditional conservatives and traditional liberals out there, or maybe just in-betweeners. But I could never bother with something as radical as faith unless I truly believed, which came about after much searching.

[bobballen_18]

Originally Posted by ricmat

In summary, here's the way I think about it

God is infinitely smarter than I am.
God loves me more than I love myself.
God tells us what to do, for our own good. And left us a living church to keep us up to date.
God gave us free will so that we can freely choose to do good, rather than being forced.

If I hear something that the church teaches, and disagree with it, I figure it's because:
I'm not as smart as God.
I don't love myself as much as God does.
I don't understand what the teaching says or means. And maybe I never can.

So I choose to absolutely trust in God's goodness, and accept it, and obey the teaching even though I don't understand it. Rather then tell God that he's wrong.

The most fundamental sin at the beginning of time was a sin of disobedience, due to a lack of trust in God's goodness.

I like this! It's all about trusting in God whether you understand something or not. Our journey here on this earth can be described as "faith seeking understanding".

In regards to the OP's question, I'm not sure since I don't fit the description...but I have always wondered the same thing.

[Don Jackson]

Originally Posted by JDaniel

Don:

So . . . when one of the Ten Commandments was "Remember, keep holy the Sabbath," God didn't really mean that. Instead, what he meant was, "Remember, if you, according to your exquisite whim, want to keep holy the Sabbath," then do so. Otherwise, don't worry about it?

(I can't say that I've never embraced that, because I have. Much to my chagrin.)

There in lies part of the problem. While Moses wa told to keep Holy the Sabboth Day, "the faith" changed it to "keep holy the Lords Day". So the Church through a whim of its own has decided the Sabboth has been replaced and we are not bound to keep holy the seventh day.

And neither does the word of God tell us we are not keeping a day holy by not attending mass. That is a man made not God created law.

[Michaeljc4]

Like the original poster, I, too, disagree with some of the teachings of the Church, but remain Catholic in my self-identification and in my practice. There are three reasons.

First, I am much more interested in what people do than in what they believe. What's in a person's heart is between them and God. What a person does in this world--kindness toward others, love of neighbor, helping 'the least of these'--is far more important than their feelings or opinions. As a Catholic, I try to 'walk the walk,' in other words: do what it is I think Jesus said was essential.

Second, I believe in the primacy of conscience. After careful study and prayer, if I find that I still disagree with this or that teaching...I just disagree. I don't make a big deal out it, or offer scandal by yelling out my opinions, but I feel free, in my heart and in my thoughts, to dissent. That's between me and God, not me, God, and the person sitting next to me in a pew.

Finally---and other people have touched on this in this thread--I am Catholic because of culture. My family is of Irish descent. Going to mass, celebrating the sacraments, engaging in Catholic spiritual practices...these are my heritage. They offer me great spiritual insight, comfort, and strength. I would not give them up for anything.

There are an unfortunate number of conservative Catholics who would like to put walls up between them and those lesser Catholics who don't share their orthodoxy with regard to certain topics. Those people are much more like the Pharisees than they are like Jesus, who invited everyone to join him. For example, a new(ish) priest in the town where I live told his parishioners that they would no longer sing the hymn "All Are Welcome" at the beginning of mass because not all are welcome. He mentioned gay people in particular, if they were not repenting of their homosexuality. While that may be catnip for some, his church is emptying each Sunday as fewer and fewer people choose to worship there. I can't blame them.

This particular priest is very orthodox. He also wouldn't know who Jesus was if he passed him on the road to Jericho.

So be of good cheer. Your faith is between you and God. Your beliefs are between you and God. Do the work of Jesus in this world, ask God humbly for his guidance, and ignore those who would tell you that you are not Catholic because, in their arrogance, they believe they speak for God. They don't.