married sexual relations

drolla · #1 Jul 23, '12, 3:57 pm

I am 49 and my wife is 48. We have four daughters, our oldest is 23 and youngest is 13. We do not want anymore children at this time in our lives. What is the churches teaching about sexual relations for a couple like us?

**1ke** · #2 Jul 23, '12, 4:12 pm

Any time you have sexual relations, it must be a completed act of intercourse. I am not sure what you are asking, but if you are asking about sterilization or contraception these are immoral. They are sins against God and the Sixth Commandment.

A couple who has a serious reason to space/avoid children can do so through abstaining. How much you abstain may depend upon your circumstances, but most couples can abstain periodically by using natural family planning.

I suggest you contact your diocesan family life office about classes on natural family planning (NFP) if you feel you have a serious reason to avoid further children at this point.

Your wife is probably fairly close to menopause, so NFP may be a short term solution.

drolla · #3 Jul 23, '12, 4:25 pm

We already use NFP and have been for years. There are some Catholics telling me that using NFP as a birth control method is immoral. I don't think so as we must still sacrifice by abstaining during the best time for sex - during her fertile period. Am I correct in believing as long as the act is completed and open to the possibility of life it is legit?
What about old people past childbearing age?
What about relations during menstrual cycle?

underacloud · #4 Jul 23, '12, 5:04 pm

To use NFP licitly, you must have serious reasons to avoid pregnancy. There's no list of what constitutes serious reasons, so that's between the two of you and God...and perhaps a trusted priest if you want further advice.

Some people might want to impose their own idea of "serious reasons" on you, which leads them to suggest that using NFP might be sinful. You should decide for yourselves and politely let others know that it's not really any of their business.

People past childbearing age may certainly have sex.

Relations during the menstrual cycle are fine...that's of course up to the couple to decide if it's enjoyable for them.

Corki · #5 Jul 23, '12, 5:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolla

We already use NFP and have been for years. There are some Catholics telling me that using NFP as a birth control method is immoral. I don't think so as we must still sacrifice by abstaining during the best time for sex - during her fertile period.

No, that's not what the Church teaches. NFP can be used to delay, even indefinately, the birth of another child whenever there is a just reason. "Just" is a matter of prudential judgement. The first question, according to my own spiritual advisor, is "Is this a reason based on selfishness?" Selfish reasons are almost always not just reasons. Advanced age (your wife would be nearly 50 is she was to conceive) is quite likely a just reason that you can prayerfully consider.

**1ke** · #6 Jul 23, '12, 5:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolla

We already use NFP and have been for years. There are some Catholics telling me that using NFP as a birth control method is immoral. I don't think so as we must still sacrifice by abstaining during the best time for sex - during her fertile period. Am I correct in believing as long as the act is completed and open to the possibility of life it is legit?

Yes, you are correct if you and your wife have discerned a serious reason to postpone/avoid conception. Humanae Vitae (and the Catechism) are clear on this. I presume you and your wife have discerned just resasons. That is between you, your wife, and your spiritual director-- you need not share them here. Those telling you NFP is immoral are off base. They are correct that it can be misused, but it is not immoral when used properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolla

What about old people past childbearing age?

What about them? I am not following you. They have no need for NFP. They can have relations whenever they like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolla

What about relations during menstrual cycle?

Again, not following you. There isn't anything immoral in this, however menstruation is a risky time to have intercourse if the woman ovulates early. Creighton teaches no intercourse during menstruation when trying to avoid.

**Bookcat** · #7 Jul 23, '12, 5:41 pm

Contraception is gravely sinful -- Periodic continence for serious reasons (they do not need to be "life or death" of course) is a very different thing.

Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI

97. When is it moral to regulate births?

2368-2369
2399

The regulation of births, which is an aspect of responsible fatherhood and motherhood, is objectively morally acceptable when it is pursued by the spouses without external pressure; when it is practiced not out of selfishness but for serious reasons; and with methods that conform to the objective criteria of morality, that is, periodic continence and use of the infertile periods.

498. What are immoral means of birth control?

2370-2372

Every action - for example, direct sterilization or contraception - is intrinsically immoral which (either in anticipation of the conjugal act, in its accomplishment or in the development of its natural consequences) proposes, as an end or as a means, to hinder procreation.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/compen...um-ccc_en.html

(one finds the use of the term "serious reasons" used more often in the more recent documents....but again such does not mean they need to be life or death....all sorts of things can come up in life..)

fpt · #8 Jul 24, '12, 2:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by drolla

We already use NFP and have been for years. There are some Catholics telling me that using NFP as a birth control method is immoral. I don't think so as we must still sacrifice by abstaining during the best time for sex - during her fertile period. Am I correct in believing as long as the act is completed and open to the possibility of life it is legit?
What about old people past childbearing age?
What about relations during menstrual cycle?

In order to be very clear, as catholic lay person I can state that the fact of practicing the marital act:

During menaupose or after the childbearing age is not an intrinsically wrong act : that is totally licit act, it is not a wrong act in itself, it is not a wrong act in and of itself, thus it is not a mortal sin or a venial sin, per se. It is not a intrinsically evil act;

During menstrual cycle is not an intrinsically wrong act : that is totally licit act, it is not a wrong act in itself, it is not a wrong act in and of itself, thus it is not a mortal sin or a venial sin, per se. It is not a intrinsically evil act;

drolla · #9 Jul 24, '12, 4:24 am

Thank you all for confirming what I already thought but was unsure of. Its not something people talk about around the water cooler.
The gift of sexual relations between one man & one woman united in the covenant of marriage is licit as an act of mutual self giving as long as it is welcoming to the possibility of life, refrains from any contraceptive method or profanation of the marital act.

St. Michael, protect us from perversion.