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  #16  
Old Jun 7, '12, 10:20 am
Bill Dodds Bill Dodds is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Jesus was a storyteller. Good fiction tells a good story and a truth.
  #17  
Old Jun 7, '12, 10:34 am
mini_me640 mini_me640 is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Jesus himself used fiction (parables) to teach. Therefore, there is nothing inherently wrong about fiction. God tells us that sexuality is for marriage only, He never tells us that emotions are for real human relationships only.
  #18  
Old Jun 7, '12, 2:44 pm
Hanna_C Hanna_C is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer View Post
Connecting with people in the way that you're implying is also way overrated.
What do you mean?

And there's definitely a difference between types of fiction. You're not getting emotionally invested in "Let's pretend a guy has three coins..."
  #19  
Old Jun 7, '12, 10:09 pm
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Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna_C View Post
What do you mean?
It's just that your post sounds like the many speeches I've heard from anti-escapists who advocate 'socializing', 'getting out', 'make friends' etc, etc.

Granted, I've seen the value. However, I've also realized that there's an element that's always outside your control. As much I admire MLK Jr., not everyone can (or will) 'just get along'.

Some people are just natural enemies. Even within their own family. Furthermore, there will be moments when your own principles, your own faith will be the cause for bitter enmity.

If trying to 'connect' with such people (and torturing yourself everyday in the process) is morally and spiritually superior, then the Church should scratch out that part of the Bible which says, "Shake the dust off your feet."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna_C View Post
And there's definitely a difference between types of fiction. You're not getting emotionally invested in "Let's pretend a guy has three coins..."
Am I smelling a reference to the parable arguments here? You think people aren't required to emotionally connect to the half-dead man after he was abandoned by two religious but rescued by a Samaritan?
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  #20  
Old Jun 7, '12, 10:22 pm
Baelor Baelor is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer View Post
Some people are just natural enemies. Even within their own family. Furthermore, there will be moments when your own principles, your own faith will be the cause for bitter enmity.
God calls us all to love. Never should the enmity be two-sided. If there is antagonism, it should not be us as Catholics who are responsible for harboring it.

The Catechism explicitly speaks on man's role in society:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCC
1879 The human person needs to live in society. Society is not for him an extraneous addition but a requirement of his nature. Through the exchange with others, mutual service and dialogue with his brethren, man develops his potential; he thus responds to his vocation.

1882 Certain societies, such as the family and the state, correspond more directly to the nature of man; they are necessary to him. To promote the participation of the greatest number in the life of a society, the creation of voluntary associations and institutions must be encouraged "on both national and international levels, which relate to economic and social goals, to cultural and recreational activities, to sport, to various professions, and to political affairs." This "socialization" also expresses the natural tendency for human beings to associate with one another for the sake of attaining objectives that exceed individual capacities. It develops the qualities of the person, especially the sense of initiative and responsibility, and helps guarantee his rights.

1883 Socialization also presents dangers...."

We are called to involve ourselves in the community. We are called to kindness; kindness requires sacrifice for others, which, with the Catholic mindset, will in fact be a joy.

Fiction is not meant to replace social interaction; living through fiction is a false life. That being said, each of us benefits from fiction and social interaction to varying degrees and in different ways.
  #21  
Old Jun 8, '12, 12:08 am
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Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baelor View Post
God calls us all to love. Never should the enmity be two-sided. If there is antagonism, it should not be us as Catholics who are responsible for harboring it.
That's pretty much my point. That doesn't eliminate the existence of said antagonism. There are just some people out there who realize that once you have a certain set of values, they will forever mark you as someone who stands against everything they live for. They will wage war with you. They will not be your friend. They will 'make examples' out of you. The best you can do for yourself is to depart from their kind. Refuse to deal with them ever again. Cease torturing yourself with their company.

Shake the dust off your feet.

Both Church and Scripture teach that not even human bonds, family or friend, are enough to have us compromise our values.

Better a fictional character who leans towards those values even in the slightest than a real person who does not, at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baelor View Post
Fiction is not meant to replace social interaction; living through fiction is a false life. That being said, each of us benefits from fiction and social interaction to varying degrees and in different ways.
Of course not but neither should social interaction be any more glorified. While I've seen a much good and promise by interacting with other people, I've also witnessed great evil in the name of 'friendship' and 'social interaction'.

I've bent my back long enough to the latter and (just recently in fact) I've decided enough is enough.
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  #22  
Old Jun 8, '12, 12:21 am
Baelor Baelor is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Wanderer View Post
Better a fictional character who leans towards those values even in the slightest than a real person who does not, at all.
They are incomparable -- humans have intrinsic worth and dignity; fictional characters do not.


Quote:
Of course not but neither should social interaction be any more glorified. While I've seen a much good and promise by interacting with other people, I've also witnessed great evil in the name of 'friendship' and 'social interaction'.
There has been great evil in the name of 'religion.' That does not make it inherently bad.

The fact remains that social interaction is something acknowledged as an intrinsic human necessity by the Church. It holds a special place that is not given to fiction.


Quote:
I've bent my back long enough to the latter and (just recently in fact) I've decided enough is enough.
I am sorry to hear that your experiences have not been good. I would recommend speaking to a therapist or spiritual director.
  #23  
Old Jun 8, '12, 12:51 am
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Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baelor View Post
They are incomparable -- humans have intrinsic worth and dignity; fictional characters do not.
Of course not. I am simply stating that if one were to choose between socializing with those who hate your guts because of your values or enjoying the adventures of fictional characters, I'd opt for the latter.

Sadly, I'm now wishing I made the latter choice instead of one half of my socializing attempts. I don't regret my successful ones though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baelor View Post
I am sorry to hear that your experiences have not been good. I would recommend speaking to a therapist or spiritual director.
All I'm saying is that even fiction becomes more desirable in circumstances where socializing forces a compromise of values.
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  #24  
Old Jun 8, '12, 10:59 am
Baelor Baelor is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Lost Wanderer, fiction is not meant to be a withdrawal, but an edifying force.

I cannot even imagine a situation in which all socialization would run contrary to values. Perhaps if one is compelled to be in a gang in a third world country or forced into an elite club somewhere that only ever talks about the joys of abortion, but these situations seem unlikely.
  #25  
Old Jun 9, '12, 5:35 pm
clark_kent clark_kent is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Do you never ask yourself "what would Clark Kent do?"

can be a great way to dodge bullets
  #26  
Old Jun 10, '12, 7:41 am
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Lost Wanderer Lost Wanderer is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baelor View Post
Perhaps if one is compelled to be in a gang in a third world country or forced into an elite club somewhere that only ever talks about the joys of abortion, but these situations seem unlikely.
Thanks for accurately describing the very half of my social experiences that I've been talking about.
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  #27  
Old Jun 10, '12, 7:48 am
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Crescentinus Crescentinus is offline
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Default Re: Fiction as Emotional Porn?

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