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  #31  
Old Jul 4, '12, 3:47 am
Brooklyn Brooklyn is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exorcist View Post
I attend Mass every Sunday morning to fulfill my Sunday obligation and to be present at the sacrifice of Jesus to His Father.

Every Sunday evening I attend a Protestant fellowship. There is no tabernacle, no simulated communion, and there is nothing anti-Catholic about it -- it's very "Christian lite." What it does offer is a chance to sing with others who also like to sing (and are good at it), to hear a pipe organ played well and it provides a weekly opportunity to partake in a potluck and good fellowship -- all which are sorely missing from any Catholic parish around here and an added chance to pray in community with other Christians.

In no way does the Catholic Church prohibit me or any other Catholic from doing this. Until I can find a Catholic Church that offers this, I will continue to attend both.
In the Protestant fellowship, you are worshipping with people who reject the Catholic Church as the one true church founded by Jesus Christ. They reject the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, they reject the Sacraments, the reject the Blessed Sacrament - Christ with us under the form of bread and wine. They reject the Mass, the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. They reject the communion of saints - the communion of the Church triumphant, suffering and militant. They more than likely believe that once saved, always saved. I can't say for sure with the group you worship with, but many, many Protestatnt groups accept homosexuality and abortion. Only Evangelicals tend to stand strong on those issues.

I could go on and one, but I hope you get my point. By worshipping with these people, you are affirming their heretical beliefs. The Church most definitely prohibits that.
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  #32  
Old Jul 4, '12, 4:28 am
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
In the Protestant fellowship, you are worshipping with people who reject the Catholic Church as the one true church founded by Jesus Christ. They reject the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, they reject the Sacraments, the reject the Blessed Sacrament - Christ with us under the form of bread and wine. They reject the Mass, the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. They reject the communion of saints - the communion of the Church triumphant, suffering and militant. They more than likely believe that once saved, always saved. I can't say for sure with the group you worship with, but many, many Protestatnt groups accept homosexuality and abortion. Only Evangelicals tend to stand strong on those issues.

I could go on and one, but I hope you get my point. By worshipping with these people, you are affirming their heretical beliefs. The Church most definitely prohibits that.
This is entirely false. Most Protestant churches for instance, have a valid baptism. Baptism is a sacrament. The Anglicans believe that the Eucharist is a sacrament. They have a Mass. There maybe serious errors in the way they believe it, and the sacrament itself may not be valid, but it they certainly believe it's a sacrament. The Anglicans celebrate saints, they just stopped naming new ones after the Reformation.

You're attempting to paint Protestantism with a very broad brush when in fact many Protestant churches do include some elements of Truth; it's just that none of them have the complete picture.

When you do attend a Protestant service however, you can be sure you're with people who love God, and love Christ in spite of the flaws of their particular church.

Only people insecure in their own faith should fear this. I have no problems attending a Protestant service with my Protestant wife from time to time as long as I don't neglect my own obligation. She also reciprocates. It's a matter of mutual respect and building our marriage on our common love of Christ.
  #33  
Old Jul 4, '12, 6:30 am
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
In the Protestant fellowship, you are worshipping with people who reject the Catholic Church as the one true church founded by Jesus Christ. They reject the Pope as the Vicar of Christ, they reject the Sacraments, the reject the Blessed Sacrament - Christ with us under the form of bread and wine. They reject the Mass, the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. They reject the communion of saints - the communion of the Church triumphant, suffering and militant. They more than likely believe that once saved, always saved. I can't say for sure with the group you worship with, but many, many Protestatnt groups accept homosexuality and abortion. Only Evangelicals tend to stand strong on those issues.

I could go on and one, but I hope you get my point. By worshipping with these people, you are affirming their heretical beliefs. The Church most definitely prohibits that.
But yet we have specific Church teaching that contradicts the opinion you have in the last paragraph. You are also supposing to -divine- the motivations and beliefs of individuals. Not even all Catholics believe the things you reference above. And although denominations have substantial differences, we should not look for division, but unity between Christians. We are all well aware of what divides us.

The issue being brough up in this thread that is objectionable, is that mortal sin is being commited by Catholics in these situations. That is just errouneous nonsense, and not by someone's opinion, but by the stated teaching of the Church that has been linked twice in this thread. Everyone should read the teaching before having an opinion.
  #34  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:20 am
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Originally Posted by clem456 View Post
But yet we have specific Church teaching that contradicts the opinion you have in the last paragraph. You are also supposing to -divine- the motivations and beliefs of individuals. Not even all Catholics believe the things you reference above. And although denominations have substantial differences, we should not look for division, but unity between Christians. We are all well aware of what divides us.

The issue being brough up in this thread that is objectionable, is that mortal sin is being commited by Catholics in these situations. That is just errouneous nonsense, and not by someone's opinion, but by the stated teaching of the Church that has been linked twice in this thread. Everyone should read the teaching before having an opinion.
No, we do not. We have the statements of several in this thread, as well as an answer from a rather trustworthy priest from Catholic Answers on the previous page.

It is mortally sinful for Catholics to knowingly and with full intent go to Protestant worship services unless one has a reason to do so, like a wedding, baptism, funeral, or some ecumenical activity.
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  #35  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:24 am
Brooklyn Brooklyn is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by OraLabora View Post
This is entirely false. Most Protestant churches for instance, have a valid baptism. Baptism is a sacrament. The Anglicans believe that the Eucharist is a sacrament. They have a Mass. There maybe serious errors in the way they believe it, and the sacrament itself may not be valid, but it they certainly believe it's a sacrament. The Anglicans celebrate saints, they just stopped naming new ones after the Reformation.
I assume that you know the word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest." What do you think they are protesting? They are protesting the Magesterium of Catholic Church, they are protesting the traditional teaching of the church, they are protesting the validity and infallibility of the Pope, they are protesting the Eucharist, they are protesting Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth, they are protesting the authority of priests to forgive sins, and on and on and on. Protestants today are not themselves heretical because they have not personally rejected the Catholic church and her teachings. But their beliefes most assuredly are heretical. Yes, Protestant baptism is valid because they do it according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. But that does not give validity to all of their many heretical teachings. Anglicans most definitely do NOT believe the Eucharist is a sacrament, at least not in the sense that the Catholic Church does. They administer it as if they do, but they do not believe in transubstantiation. Only the Catholic church believes this.

Quote:
You're attempting to paint Protestantism with a very broad brush when in fact many Protestant churches do include some elements of Truth; it's just that none of them have the complete picture.
Having elements of truth does not validate the heresy that they teach and believe.

Quote:
When you do attend a Protestant service however, you can be sure you're with people who love God, and love Christ in spite of the flaws of their particular church.
I am not questioning their love of God. I spent decades in the Protestant church. I know they love God. But their beliefs are still heretical.

Quote:
Only people insecure in their own faith should fear this. I have no problems attending a Protestant service with my Protestant wife from time to time as long as I don't neglect my own obligation. She also reciprocates. It's a matter of mutual respect and building our marriage on our common love of Christ.
I guess you better tell Father Serpa he is insecure in his faith, too.

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by clem456 View Post
But yet we have specific Church teaching that contradicts the opinion you have in the last paragraph. You are also supposing to -divine- the motivations and beliefs of individuals. Not even all Catholics believe the things you reference above. And although denominations have substantial differences, we should not look for division, but unity between Christians. We are all well aware of what divides us.
Really? What teaching is that? I've never heard it, and I guess Father Serpa hasn't heard it, either. We cannot have unity with heretical belief.

Quote:
The issue being brough up in this thread that is objectionable, is that mortal sin is being commited by Catholics in these situations. That is just errouneous nonsense, and not by someone's opinion, but by the stated teaching of the Church that has been linked twice in this thread. Everyone should read the teaching before having an opinion.
Mortal sin depends on the person. If a persons insists on going to protestant worship services knowing that he is worshipping with those who are not in communion with the Catholic Church and by his presence, thereby affirming the heretical beliefs of the protestants, he may well have committed mortal sin. I would not make that judgment. I will leave it between the person and his confessor.
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  #36  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:25 am
Phemie Phemie is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Originally Posted by YoungTradCath View Post
No, we do not. We have the statements of several in this thread, as well as an answer from a rather trustworthy priest from Catholic Answers on the previous page.

It is mortally sinful for Catholics to knowingly and with full intent go to Protestant worship services unless one has a reason to do so, like a wedding, baptism, funeral, or some ecumenical activity.
My parish doesn't celebrate Evening Prayer and although I tried my best to start that, there was no interest, even from the Pastor. The Anglican Church down the street does celebrate Evening Prayer, pretty much in the same format as we do. You're saying that opting to go celebrate Evening Prayer with them is a sin.
  #37  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:28 am
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agnes therese agnes therese is online now
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

Perhaps you would like to re-read Fr. Serpa's answer. He said it can be sinful. He does not say it is definitely and/or always sinful, nor does he mention mortal sin.



Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTradCath View Post
No, we do not. We have the statements of several in this thread, as well as an answer from a rather trustworthy priest from Catholic Answers on the previous page.

It is mortally sinful for Catholics to knowingly and with full intent go to Protestant worship services unless one has a reason to do so, like a wedding, baptism, funeral, or some ecumenical activity.
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  #38  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:33 am
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Originally Posted by Phemie View Post
My parish doesn't celebrate Evening Prayer and although I tried my best to start that, there was no interest, even from the Pastor. The Anglican Church down the street does celebrate Evening Prayer, pretty much in the same format as we do. You're saying that opting to go celebrate Evening Prayer with them is a sin.
I would say so, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnes therese View Post
Perhaps you would like to re-read Fr. Serpa's answer. He said it can be sinful. He does not say it is definitely and/or always sinful, nor does he mention mortal sin.


I didn't say that. I said that without a reason (examples above were given), it is mortally sinful.
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  #39  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:35 am
Brooklyn Brooklyn is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Originally Posted by agnes therese View Post
Perhaps you would like to re-read Fr. Serpa's answer. He said it can be sinful. He does not say it is definitely and/or always sinful, nor does he mention mortal sin.
You are really splitting hairs.
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  #40  
Old Jul 4, '12, 7:58 am
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

Funeral, wedding and baptisms I can understand. When I was attending RCIA we were warned not to actually attend Protestant services because so much of what they believe in is contradictory to what we believe in. So why would we attend a Protestant service in the first place?
  #41  
Old Jul 4, '12, 8:02 am
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

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Funeral, wedding and baptisms I can understand. When I was attending RCIA we were warned not to actually attend Protestant services because so much of what they believe in is contradictory to what we believe in. So why would we attend a Protestant service in the first place?
Yes, this is the point. If one has a legitimate reason to go--a wedding, a baptism, a funeral, an ecumenical activity, or some other such event--then that is fine, as long as you don't receive "Communion" if they have it or do anything else that would offend the faith.

But to go to a non-Catholic worship service without such a reason, excepting Orthodox liturgies in certain circumstances, one sins.
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  #42  
Old Jul 4, '12, 8:14 am
OraLabora OraLabora is offline
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Default Re: SPLIT: Attending Protestant services wrong?

[quote=Brooklyn;9483101]
Quote:

I assume that you know the word "Protestant" comes from the word "protest." What do you think they are protesting? They are protesting the Magesterium of Catholic Church, they are protesting the traditional teaching of the church, they are protesting the validity and infallibility of the Pope, they are protesting the Eucharist, they are protesting Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth, they are protesting the authority of priests to forgive sins, and on and on and on. Protestants today are not themselves heretical because they have not personally rejected the Catholic church and her teachings. But their beliefes most assuredly are heretical. Yes, Protestant baptism is valid because they do it according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. But that does not give validity to all of their many heretical teachings. Anglicans most definitely do NOT believe the Eucharist is a sacrament, at least not in the sense that the Catholic Church does. They administer it as if they do, but they do not believe in transubstantiation. Only the Catholic church believes this.



Having elements of truth does not validate the heresy that they teach and believe.



I am not questioning their love of God. I spent decades in the Protestant church. I know they love God. But their beliefs are still heretical.
Don't play me for a fool. I know what "Protestant" means.

Most Protestants aren't protesting anything. They are in the church that they are in, because that's the church in which they were brought up or that they drifted into. They are doing their best to worship God in the manner they were taught. The only ones I've ever encountered that were "protesting" were in fact ex-Catholics with chips on their shoulders and a few over-the-top evangelicals out to try to prove a point.

I'm sorry but I don't buy your "circle the wagons" mentality. Many of us have to live with Protestants on a daily basis. We have far more in common with Protestants than with secular atheists. I prefer to work with them in the things we hold and love in common, than to shun them, and I prefer to show respect for them. Showing disdain for them won't make them any less Protestant. I've been through that, it got me nowhere, and nearly cost me my marriage.

I'd rather instead try to witness my faith properly than tear down theirs. I think over time, it's more effective.
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