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  #31  
Old Jun 9, '12, 6:09 pm
kwortham kwortham is offline
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Default Re: Tome of Leo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Credo ergo sum View Post
Naw, the Illyrians were pretty vocal about their opposition to the Tome and Leo. Cardinal Newman interpreted it thus:

"Notwithstanding, the Pope's Legates gained their point through the support of the Emperor Marcian, who had succeeded Theodosius. A fresh committee was obtained under the threat that, if they resisted, the Council should be transferred to the West. Some voices were raised against this measure; the cries were repeated against the Roman party, "They are Nestorians; let them go to Rome."
It just does not read that way. You are making it sound as if they were saying let all of those heretics go back to Rome where they belong. The logic for that conclusion is unsupported.

"Cecropius, the most reverend bishop of Sebastopol, said: We ask that the definition be read again and that those who dissent from it, and will not sign, may go about their business; for we give our consent to these things which have been so beautifully drafted, and make no criticisms.

The most blessed bishops of Illyria said: Let those who contradict be made manifest. Those who contradict are Nestorians. Those who contradict, let them go to Rome.

The most magnificent and most glorious judges said: Dioscorus acknowledged that he accepted the expression "of two natures," but not that there were two natures. But the most holy archbishop Leo says that there are two natures in Christ unchangeably, inseparably, unconfusedly united in the one only-begotten Son our Saviour. Which would you follow, the most holy Leo or Dioscorus?

The most reverend bishops cried out: We believe as Leo. Those who contradict are Eutychians. Leo hath rightly expounded the faith." -Session V, Volume 14, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Second Series, page 261. [Labbe and Cossart, Concilia, Tom. IV., col. 555]

My understanding of your reading of this just does not follow. I do not want to put words in your mouth, so please let me know if I have your position wrong. Are you suggesting that Rome was the center of the nestorian heresy? Were you suggesting that the papal vicars were being sent back to Rome as heretics?
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  #32  
Old Jun 9, '12, 6:18 pm
kwortham kwortham is offline
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Default Re: Tome of Leo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaradossi View Post
Actually, the Illyrian bishops are accusing Rome of being Nestorian. They had a long standing suspicion of the orthodoxy of the see of Rome.
If so, then why did they cry out:

"We believe as Leo. Those who contradict are Eutychians. Leo hath rightly expounded the faith." -Session V, Volume 14, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Second Series, page 261. [Labbe and Cossart, Concilia, Tom. IV., col. 555]
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1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
  #33  
Old Jun 9, '12, 6:35 pm
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Cavaradossi Cavaradossi is online now
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Default Re: Tome of Leo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwortham View Post
If so, then why did they cry out:

"We believe as Leo. Those who contradict are Eutychians. Leo hath rightly expounded the faith." -Session V, Volume 14, Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Second Series, page 261. [Labbe and Cossart, Concilia, Tom. IV., col. 555]
That was in session V, after session IV, when the Tome of Leo had been determined by the council to be in accordance with the Orthodox faith. If you look session II in the acts, where the Tome of Leo was first read publicly, the Illyrian bishops were among the bishops who interrupted the reading of the Tome in order to make objections to its Nestorian sounding language.
24. When there was being read the part of the aforesaid letter that contains the words, ‘For the payment of the debt owed by our nature divine nature was united to the passible nature, so that – this fitting our cure – one and the same, being the mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, would be able to die in respect of the one and would not be able to expire in respect of the other’, and the most devout Illyrian and Palestinian bishops raised an objection, Aetius the most devout archdeacon of imperial Constantinople read out the chapter of Cyril of sacred memory, the late bishop of the city of Alexandria, containing the words, ‘Since again his own body by the grace of God tasted death on behalf of everyone, as the apostle says, he himself is said to have suffered death on our behalf, not as though he entered into the experience of death in regard to his own nature (for to say or think that would be lunacy) but because, as I have just said, his own flesh tasted death.’

25. Likewise when there was being read the part that contains the words, ‘For each form performs what is proper to it in association with the other, the Word achieving what is the Word’s, while the body accomplishes what is the body’s; the one shines with miracles while the other has succumbed to outrages’, and the most devout Illyrian and Palestinian bishops raised an objection, Aetius archdeacon of the holy church of Constantinople read out the chapter of Cyril of sacred memory containing the words, ‘Some of the sayings are particularly fitting to God, some again are particularly fitting to man, while others occupy a middle position, revealing the Son of God as God and man simultaneously and at the same time.’

26. Likewise when there was being read from the same letter the part that contains the words, ‘Although indeed in the Lord Jesus Christ there is one person of God and man, nevertheless that because of which the outrage is common in both is one thing and that because of which the glory is common is another, for he has from us the humanity that is less than the Father, and he has from the Father the Godhead that is equal with the Father’, and the most devout Illyrian and Palestinian bishops raised an objection, Theodoret the most devout bishop of Cyrrhus said, ‘There is a similar instance in the blessed Cyril which contains the words, “He became man without shedding what was his own, for he remained what he was; he is certainly conceived as one dwelling in another, that is, the divine nature in what is human.”’
The Illyrians definitely had suspicions concerning the orthodoxy of the see of Rome going into the Council, and they needed to be convinced that Leo's Tome was of the Orthodox faith. They didn't accept it simply because it was authored by the bishop of Rome.
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But God, he says, is simple, and whatever attribute of Him you have reckoned as knowable is of His essence. But the absurdities involved in this sophism are innumerable. When all these high attributes have been enumerated, are they all names of one essence? St. Basil Letter 234
  #34  
Old Jun 9, '12, 7:18 pm
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Vico Vico is offline
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Default Re: Tome of Leo.

Pope St. Leo's best Christological work was his Letter to Emperor Leo I in August 453 A.D. But almost identical to letter CXXIV

CLIX To Leo Augustus.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf212.ii.iv.clix.html

CXXIV To the Monks of Palestine
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf...iv.cxviii.html

VI. There is no confusion of the two natures in Christ537. Although therefore from that beginning whereby in the Virgin’s womb “the Word became flesh,” no sort of division ever arose between the Divine and the human substance, and through all the growth and changes of His body, the actions were of one Person the whole time, yet we do not by any mixing of them up confound those very acts which were done inseparably: and from the character of the acts we perceive what belonged to either form. For neither do His Divine acts affect538 His human, nor His human acts His Divine, since both concur in this way and to this very end that in their operation His twofold qualities be not absorbed the one by the other, nor His individuality doubled.


VII. ... For as the original chains of our captivity could not be loosed, unless a man of our race and of our nature appeared who was not under the prejudice of the old debt, and who with his untainted blood might blot out the bond of death548, as it had from the beginning been divinely fore-ordained, so it came to pass in the fulness of the appointed time that the promise which had been proclaimed in many ways might reach its long expected fulfilment, and that thus, what had been frequently announced by one testimony after another, might have all doubtfulness removed.
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