The Eastern Church on Marian Dogma/Doctrines

[vames]

Originally Posted by brb3

How does the following Western MAGNIFICAT prayer language sit with Eastern Catholics ?

Must be three different prayers:
1) Magnificat is "My soul magnifies the Lord" (which is Mary's praise to God, not a praise to Mary)
2) Salve Regina is "Hail Holy Queen, OUR LIFE, OUR SWEETNESS, AND OUR HOPE"
3) but where does "Oh, blessed Virgin, all praise to you" come from??

As for Eastern Catholic prayers, what do you say about this truly magnificent akathist?
http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=249

[dvdjs]

Originally Posted by Zekariya

Ah, you mean Byzantium. This Council was never recognized as Ecumenical

Byzantium? No I do not mean Byzantium
But please let;s not go down the rabbit hole of what is "Ecumencial" - surely you don;t hold that Orthodox belief is limited to what has been declared in a council received as Ecumenical. If you think that there is teaching against this Confession, please provide the sources that contest the perspectives that I have quoted.

What about the Oriental Churches. Did the Ecumenical Patriarch speak for them as well?

Indeed. The discussion was about the Eastern Churches not the Oriental Churches, and that is what I responded to. In any case, the use of the the term in the EOC is is incompatible with the notion that the term is not used in the East, even if that inculdes Oriental OCs. Finally, the EP spoke for himself, not for any church, as his church made plain in its council.

[joe370]

Originally Posted by GaryTaylor

The miracles in the Coptic Church are well known also. All point back to the deposit of faith.

The apparitions of the blessed virgin Mary appeared to millions In The Coptic Orthodox Church in Zeitoun, a district in Cairo, Egypt:

http://<br /> Miracle Mary Zeitoun ...e=results_main

Interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI_0nh7Tg10

[brb3]

Originally Posted by joe370

The apparitions of the blessed virgin Mary appeared to millions In The Coptic Orthodox Church in Zeitoun, a district in Cairo, Egypt:

http://<br /> Miracle Mary Zeitoun ...e=results_main

Interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI_0nh7Tg10

ok Joe ...

Watched the Zeitoun video on Utube. Hard to say what we're seeing, we need better photos, which should be available, since this went on for 4 years.

[GaryTaylor]

I don't know how some come to believe and other's see it as no big to-do. I'm of the conviction as has been suggested here right along by many......Grace precedes Knowledge. Its no different than the saying at Lourdes; For those who believe no evidence is required, for those who do not, none can be provided. Or with Jesus/St Thomas in Sacred Scripture....Blessed are those who don't see and believe.

Which reminds me of the Eucharist which I'm of the impression is why we hear the same line of thinking with so many Orthodox followers regardless of which Church, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, Constantinople etc. Frankly a large percent already truly believe. Still this belief isn't being transmitted in a universal sense indicating "unity in communion" by large

The manifestation of the Holy Spirit through the BVM while this confirms the believers faith, so too their responsibility to the Faith increase's as it develops, intercession increase's the development no different than a mother with her children. Still yet it serves a greater purpose in the sense that they are signs, quiet as they may be, which are a testimony to the Gospel truth in which the Lord seeks Communion with man. In this sense when man shuts the door on the Lord, He opens the window. Its empathetic and mercy which is indeed rooted in love.

The intent isn't to satisfy a curiosity or provide passive enjoyment, its to point back to the path, which is the Deposit of Faith.

That is why all my conversation begins and ends with unity/communion.

"Prepare the way of the LORD! Make "STRAIGHT" in the wasteland a highway for our God!" Isaiah 40

[Zekariya]

Originally Posted by dvdjs

Byzantium? No I do not mean Byzantium
But please let;s not go down the rabbit hole of what is "Ecumencial" - surely you don;t hold that Orthodox belief is limited to what has been declared in a council received as Ecumenical. If you think that there is teaching against this Confession, please provide the sources that contest the perspectives that I have quoted.

Indeed. The discussion was about the Eastern Churches not the Oriental Churches, and that is what I responded to.

I know that the Eastern Orthodox reject the notion of transubstantiation. I also know that they supposedly believe what the majority of the Eastern Orthodox Fathers believe.

In the Catholic Church there is no: Eastern Churches and Oriental Churches. The Eastern Church comprises of all of the Churches that are not part of the West. The Byzantine Rite is one of many. Do you think that the "Eastern Catholicism" forum is for only the Byzantine Rite?

[dvdjs]

Originally Posted by Zekariya

I know that the Eastern Orthodox reject the notion of transubstantiation.

This is a problem. Major works on Orthodox theology affirmed the notion of transubstantiation from the 1600's, when the issue arose in the East, to at least the 1950's. Yes, we now have some EOrthodox who reject the notion. Clearly, there is some 'splainin' to do; it does not suffice to simply assert that the EOC rejects this notion. And if anyone were to suggest that this recent perspective is the continuous tradition of the EOC, that suggestion would contradict reality.

In the Catholic Church there is no: Eastern Churches and Oriental Churches. The Eastern Church comprises of all of the Churches that are not part of the West. The Byzantine Rite is one of many. Do you think that the "Eastern Catholicism" forum is for only the Byzantine Rite?

I am very well aware of the OrientalO and OrientalC churches. I am not familiar with their history on the notion of transubstantiation, and have made no statements about it. However, since the EOC is clearly part of the East, any suggestion that the East rejects the notion is inaccurate and potentially misleading.