Obama declares support for same-sex marriage

[rlg94086]

Originally Posted by fibromom

. I am familiar with the Catechism's teaching and I'm glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.

I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an "authentic right" for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

If you mean homosexual acts, then you are at odds with the Church on the subject. I recommend prayer and further reading to understand the complete reason, rather than just citing Leviticus. Try reading John Paul II's Theology of the Body.

[Elizabeth502]

Originally Posted by fibromom

I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

Then those Catholics are not well read, which is probably over half of Catholics today.

I do not see homosexuality as a sin.

As Catholics all of us are bound to conform ourselves to Church teachings regarding morality and sin, whether that makes us comfortable or uncomfortable. We have no authority to develop an opposing moral code, regardless of what is politcally popular and current outside the Church, in society.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

But personal morality clearly does apply, and Jesus Himself confirmed the personal moral code (actually made it more rigorous, not less so). And the Church acts on Jesus' authority, by extension. The fact that you imply otherwise reveals lack of knowledge of your faith, whether you think it's "Christian" to be told that or not.

The dietary laws were not what Jesus came to confirm, but rather the core morality of the Mosaic code.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

Authenticity regarding morality resides with the Church which Jesus founded.

[fix]

Originally Posted by fibromom

. I am familiar with the Catechism's teaching and I'm glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.

I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an "authentic right" for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

First there is difference between the old ceremonial law and the moral law. The issue about pork and such has no relationship to sexual morality.

Also, The Church's doctrine regarding this issue is thus based, not on isolated phrases for facile theological argument, but on the solid foundation of a constant Biblical testimony.

You have not stated why you hold these beliefs? Two brothers may claim love and devotion. Is it politics to conclude they have no right to "marry"?

[Elizabeth502]

Originally Posted by fibromom

Gee, thank you Elizabeth. You are my Christian role model. Thank you so much for clearing all of that up. I will get right to work on correcting my errors.

I'm not "correcting" your personal morality is, fibromom. that's what Jesus was referring to in this quote:

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3

He wasn't referring to information. What you have posted is intellectual error, not moral error (what Jesus was referring to), and as your sister, and for the sake of those lurking on this forum who may get an incorrect picture of Roman Catholicism from what others incorrectly say, I am bound to correct that error. I do not accuse you of sin. I and others here correct you on error.

[JimG]

Originally Posted by fibromom

. I am familiar with the Catechism's teaching and I'm glad to see that some others on here are, as well. I do not think there are a lot of Catholics who really know about the section of treating homosexuals with dignity and respect.

I, however, take it one step further and to be honest, I do not see homosexuality as a sin. I am a happily married woman with children just so you know this is not a self promoting stance.

I am aware of the teachings in Leviticus regarding homosexuality but also am aware that in Leviticus there are teachings about not eating pork, wearing mixed fabrics together, etc. that clearly do not apply to our modern world.

I love my church but find that it has gotten more and more politically based and that is very difficult for me.
I do think that being allowed to marry the person you love and are dovoted to is an "authentic right" for all human beings.

These are my authentic feelings and beliefs.

Merely stating the Church's teachings with regard to homosexual actions is not un-Christlike. Clear teaching is what is expected of the Church and its members.

On this issue, it is not the Church that has changed. It's teaching has been constant. Holding fast to the teaching that has been handed down from the beginning does not constitute becoming politcally based.

That marriage involves sexual complementarity has been self-evident not just from the beginnings of Christianity, not just from the beginnings of Judaism, but from the beginnings of human civilization. The words "marital," "conjugal," and "marriage" itself all imply sexual complementarity and the ability to consummate the marital act.

Similarly, permanent and antecedent and incurable impotence--i.e., inability to consummate the marital act, are impediments to marriage, while infertility is not.

It goes without saying that same sex couples do not have the capacity to consummate a marriage, because that requires sexual complementarity. Thus, marriage between them is simiply an impossibility.

As to the ability to "marry the person you love," that has never been applicable to marriage as a universal fact. One is not allowed to marry one's children. Adults are not allowed to marry minors, no matter how much they love each other. Marriage between close kin is prohibited, no matter who loves whom. Siblings living together are not allowed to marry, even though they love each other.

If "marry the one you love," is the standard, then all the above should be allowed, and there is no reason why they wouldn't be.

Homosexuality--simply as an inclination--is certainly no sin. Humans have all sorts of inclinations. Not all are to be acted upon.

[tqualey]

Hi, OrdinaryMelkite,

I had thought that way! Yes, this will surely be a negative factor in the voting - but, then I heard a debate that changed my mind.

According to the speaker, 90% of those who will eventually vote - have already made up their minds who they were going to vote for. This pro-homosexual change, while really nothing new, will most probably now sway this forecasted close election one way or the other. The 10% undecided will just see this 'evaluation' by the President, as just one more variable to consider when they enter the polling booth 106-days from now.

I guess the only thing that confounds me is the reports that this is going to be a close election! Yes, the Republicans have yet to meet and hand Romney the nomination - so maybe that could be at least a partial reason for there not being much enthusiasm for the Mass. gov who declared that any Clerk of Court who refused to issue a marriage license to homosexuals would be fired - as a response to a Mass. Supreme Court decision. But there is more: http://www.massresistance.org/docs/m.../timeline.html

Best advice I can offer is to make sure you are registered as a voter, identify the many moral and policy failures of President Obama and then vote your conscience.

God bless

Originally Posted by OrdinaryMelkite

Oh, boy.............................

Part of me is saying:

"His possibility for a second term has just evaporated."

Another side of me says:

"We'll see in November whether this sinks him or not. A good portion of the non-religious (and some liberally religious) public supports this----so it could be a either/or proposition."

I tend to cautiously (and ultimately) go with the second thought. We'll see.

IF he wins a second term, he will see it as a blank check by the American people to let him try to pass whatever he wants. This will be one of his opportunities to write "checks."

Hang on to your safety belts, folks................................

We need to get Obama out of the White House. Urgently. It is time for the religious people of this country (whether Catholic or not) and the just plain God-abiding, period, to stand up for the Truth Of God.

Please Holy Father, help us in our hour of need. Through the prayers of the Mother of God,
have mercy on us and save us. Amen.

[tqualey]

Hi, Fibromom,

Welcome to CAF

Your post certainly seems to be related to the thread - so, in my opinion, you belong on this thread.

I'm a practice Catholic, too! And, that means following the teachings of the Catholic Church. Living by Christ's Words is very important - words like, "Love thy neighbor as thyself". You will be please to note that the Catechism of the Catholic Church addresses this very issue - and, here is the link: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

Christ never did segregate a particular sinner as someone He could not love. Christ loved all - and he hated sin as an offense against His Divine Person. Here is a link that really does address some of the concerns you expressed: http://www.catholic.com/documents/gay-marriage

Having compassion for gays is a good first step - but, as Catholics, we are to have genuine charity for them - and all people. The Catholic Church sees acts such as prejudice (against any group) as a sin against charity. This really is one of the foundations for Catholic Social Justice and the teachings of the Church. Here is a link that I think demonstrates this very well: http://www.firstthings.com/onthesqua...ht-for-freedom.

I am not sure why you think you must leave the Catholic Church. My assumption is that you are a Catholic because this is the Church founded by Christ on Peter (Matt 16) and that Christ gave Peter the power to bind and lose. Christ promised that His Church would be given all truth and can not teach error. In John 6, Christ asks the Apostles if they too will leave Him - and Peter responds, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." I think anyone honestly thinking about leaving the Catholic Church will need to address Peter's question with the full knowledge that the answer they give will be evaluated by God at the Judgment.

God bless

Originally Posted by fibromom

Wow..........maybe I do not belong on this page. I am a practicing Catholic who also believes in the rights of all human beings, including gays. I live by Christ's words of, "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and he did not say "unless they are gay." Also, I believe final judgment is in the hands of God and not human beings. Jesus taught us to love one another and to treat others as we would like to be treated.

I have compassion for gays and support all of God's people. To me, the prejudice against gays is no different than the prejudices against blacks, asians, hispanics, women, etc.

Social justice is very important to me.

Like I said, maybe I do need to leave my church that I love so dearly.