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  #16  
Old Jul 12, '12, 10:46 am
Hunter24 Hunter24 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by R_C View Post
What can I tell you? I believe that "whatever is good or true in other religions comes from God and is a reflection of his truth" and that the fullness of the divine revelation has been given through Christ, who said:



Pax Christi tecum!
Indeed, I would agree. For a Christian, what needs to be known is given. Religion is the study material and life is a pass/fail test for admitence into heaven. Christianity is seen as the answer key and other religions are like improperly taken notes, still some truth but not correct in total.

For a Wiccan like myself life is an endless cycle of death and rebirth, where with each life our soul gains more knowledge of existence. A never ending journey.
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  #17  
Old Jul 12, '12, 11:03 am
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by Hunter24 View Post
Indeed, I would agree. For a Christian, what needs to be known is given. Religion is the study material and life is a pass/fail test for admitence into heaven. Christianity is seen as the answer key and other religions are like improperly taken notes, still some truth but not correct in total.

For a Wiccan like myself life is an endless cycle of death and rebirth, where with each life our soul gains more knowledge of existence. A never ending journey.
That is not entirely exact

For a Christian, we believe the words that God spoke when He said:
Quote:
"I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord ,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the Lord.
This revelation was confirmed by Jesus Christ:
Quote:
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
So we live and learn, all knowledge already being written in our heart and mind, whether we know Christ or not. Religion is how we relate to God, and life is the time we have to show to God that we love Him, and the only way to show that love is by how much we love each other.

We do not see Christianity as the answer key, we know that Christ is the truth, and that "whoever is not with Him is against Him". Thus, by saying that whatever is good in other religions comes from God and is a reflection of His truth", we are saying that salvation is truly universal, for to "fail" admission into the state of heaven - the state in which we are at the presence of God - we ought to reject truth, preferring darkness to light.

You profess a belief in a cycle of death and rebirth, but we know - and we have really good reasons and evidence - that there are two births - from our mother and from water and spirit), and eternal life afterwards; and that after the physical death we either live separated from God (hell) or at His presence (heaven, though we may need some purification which we call the state of purgatory).

I do not say: "become Catholic or else" All I dare to say is:
Quote:
seek and you will find [...] you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free
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  #18  
Old Jul 12, '12, 11:31 am
Hunter24 Hunter24 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by R_C View Post
That is not entirely exact

For a Christian, we believe the words that God spoke when He said:


This revelation was confirmed by Jesus Christ:


So we live and learn, all knowledge already being written in our heart and mind, whether we know Christ or not. Religion is how we relate to God, and life is the time we have to show to God that we love Him, and the only way to show that love is by how much we love each other.

We do not see Christianity as the answer key, we know that Christ is the truth, and that "whoever is not with Him is against Him". Thus, by saying that whatever is good in other religions comes from God and is a reflection of His truth", we are saying that salvation is truly universal, for to "fail" admission into the state of heaven - the state in which we are at the presence of God - we ought to reject truth, preferring darkness to light.

You profess a belief in a cycle of death and rebirth, but we know - and we have really good reasons and evidence - that there are two births - from our mother and from water and spirit), and eternal life afterwards; and that after the physical death we either live separated from God (hell) or at His presence (heaven, though we may need some purification which we call the state of purgatory).

I do not say: "become Catholic or else" All I dare to say is:
A good explanation. May I ask what evidence there is of a perminant afterlife? I know people testify of one but everyone who comes back from the dead only spent a few minuets there.
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  #19  
Old Jul 12, '12, 11:38 am
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by Hunter24 View Post
A good explanation. May I ask what evidence there is of a perminant afterlife? I know people testify of one but everyone who comes back from the dead only spent a few minuets there.
Thanks

I won't give you a short and imprecise answer, rather I'll wrap up some thoughts and post a bit later. But there have been in the history of the Church countless "private revelations" from God or from the departed souls, which witness to the existence of those three states: permanent rejection, temporary purification, presence. Which is not to say that for mysterious reasons the faithful departed have not been allowed sometimes to manifest themselves spiritually on this world.
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  #20  
Old Jul 13, '12, 5:02 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Thanks for this advice, I will pass it on to her. Also, it certainly isn't a matter of cleverness, it's a matter of discerning intention. If a person is properly developed in dealing with the Occult they should be able to pick up on the aura of a particular spirit. Not to say this could not be disguised by a malevolent spirit. Spirit guides have hurt noone that I know of, and in my religion they are not seen as rebelling against god because God is made up of all spirits, including both us and them. In Wicca the only way to rebel against the entirety of God would be to attempt to destroy all of existence.
No one is properly developed in dealing with the Occult. Especially because many rely on demons. The devil is the master of deceit.

God had nothing to do with the Occult. God warned us to stay away from it.

It does not matter how old a practice is, or when it existed. Many false faiths existed before the time of Christ. Just read the O.T. how many worshiped false gods.

Many of the great kings of the past were greatly into the Occult.

And I disagree with you many spirits have hurt many, and are not from God. And I totally disagree with you, there are evil spirits and evil is not made up of God. Nothing evil comes from God it comes from the Devil.

In the Catholic faith the way to rebel against God is to practice wicca or any other way except for prayer and the Church is to revel agaisnt God.

It breaks the first commandment. I am the Lord you God there shall be no other Gods before me.

In the Catholic faith if you are going outside of the Church looking for answers etc. you are breaking the first commandment.

I do not see how you feel that the only way to rebel against God is to destroy all of existance. That is not what the first commandment of God says at all.
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  #21  
Old Jul 13, '12, 5:15 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by Hunter24 View Post
A good explanation. May I ask what evidence there is of a perminant afterlife? I know people testify of one but everyone who comes back from the dead only spent a few minuets there.
This is not true. Jesus Christ came back and spend quite awhile here. Jesus is God made Man who died on the Cross for our sins.

On the third day he rose again, there are thousands who testified to this. Jesus Christ is God the Son, One in being with the Father. The Holy Spirit is also as much God as the Son and the Father. So God has never left us.

He exists in the Holy Spirit and is here and guides us in the RCC. He is the advocate. I would suggest you read the Holy Bible and much will be given to you.

We all learn from the word of God. It will amaze you, because it is as much in the time of today as in the days of old. It never changes.

The evidence we have is the promise from Jesus. He tells us I am leaving but I am preparing a place for you, and I will come back and get you. He keeps his promises. ANd the last day for someone is at this second. And they are at this second being received into the house of many mansions promised to them by God the Almighty.

The only true Spirit in this world that if from God is the Advocate the Holy Spirit. All others Spirits are false. If it is a true Spirit and is the Spirit of Truth, it is send from one source the Holy Spirit which is God the Almighty.

We are taught that if God wants to send you a Spirit it will find us, we are not to go and look for it. We are warned not to do this. We trust him, and live this truth out, because we love him, and worship ONE TRUE GOD. THE HOLY SPRIIT.

God Bless
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  #22  
Old Jul 13, '12, 5:28 am
rinnie rinnie is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

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Originally Posted by Hunter24 View Post
Indeed, I would agree. For a Christian, what needs to be known is given. Religion is the study material and life is a pass/fail test for admitence into heaven. Christianity is seen as the answer key and other religions are like improperly taken notes, still some truth but not correct in total.

For a Wiccan like myself life is an endless cycle of death and rebirth, where with each life our soul gains more knowledge of existence. A never ending journey.
We do not believe in rebirth. It is totally against the word of God.

Heb 9:27 Just as it is appointed the Human beings die ONCE after this is judgement so also Christ offered ONCE to take away the sins of many will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who early await him.

This is our proof that we only die once, but never truly die, only a physical death, because by the taking way of sins, by the blood of Christ he gained for us eternal Life. Which is life after death which never ends.

Which this scripture shows Christ will appear a SECOND time, not be born again. He told us when he comes he will come as he left through the sky. That is not a re-brith.

He did not say he would be born again in human form to a virgin, he said that he would bring salvation to all who await him.. When you sin, it is death, death to your soul. Christ took away that death and when we obey his commands, and confess our sins, we also will have eternal life in Christ as promised.
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  #23  
Old Jul 13, '12, 12:01 pm
Hunter24 Hunter24 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

Firstly I would just like to say that scence the OP my friend has seen the Lynx again and told it she felt uncomfortable with breaking catholic rules and talking to it. She said it said it would not bother her and she can find him if she needs him.

And now for the inevitable attacks on my religion... :/


Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
No one is properly developed in dealing with the Occult. Especially because many rely on demons. The devil is the master of deceit.

God had nothing to do with the Occult. God warned us to stay away from it.

It does not matter how old a practice is, or when it existed. Many false faiths existed before the time of Christ. Just read the O.T. how many worshiped false gods.
There are many people well accomplished in working with spirits. And yes I know that religions existed before Christianity, I work with the Germanic pantion; Odin, Thor, Tyr, Freyja, ect. They've been around quite a while. Also, my religion teaches that no religion is "False" because all gods are just faces of the ultimate god composed of all spiritual and magical energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
Many of the great kings of the past were greatly into the Occult.
Indeed, Solomon being one of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
And I disagree with you many spirits have hurt many, and are not from God. And I totally disagree with you, there are evil spirits and evil is not made up of God. Nothing evil comes from God it comes from the Devil.
Oh spirits do hurt people, but the foolish people who get in over their head or are foolish enough to think everything on the other side of the Ouija board is friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
In the Catholic faith the way to rebel against God is to practice wicca or any other way except for prayer and the Church is to revel agaisnt God.

It breaks the first commandment. I am the Lord you God there shall be no other Gods before me.

In the Catholic faith if you are going outside of the Church looking for answers etc. you are breaking the first commandment.
Ya, that why I left the catholic church. You quoting the 10 commandments does nothing to sway me, I don't beleave they are from God. God as a whole is neutral, it is the entitys that make up the parts of the ultimate god, The God and Goddes, Thor, Ra, Zues, Mars, ect. Who have agendas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
I do not see how you feel that the only way to rebel against God is to destroy all of existance. That is not what the first commandment of God says at all.
Because God is made of all entity's, both helpfull and harmfull, the only way to go against the entirety of God would be to go against all of existence. Get it?
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  #24  
Old Jul 13, '12, 12:13 pm
Hunter24 Hunter24 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
This is not true. Jesus Christ came back and spend quite awhile here. Jesus is God made Man who died on the Cross for our sins.

On the third day he rose again, there are thousands who testified to this. Jesus Christ is God the Son, One in being with the Father. The Holy Spirit is also as much God as the Son and the Father. So God has never left us.
Why is it impossible to mention death without someone saying this. I'm not talking about the reserection I'm talking about people who have died and seen brief glimpses of the afterlife. It's a rather well documented phenomenon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
He exists in the Holy Spirit and is here and guides us in the RCC. He is the advocate. I would suggest you read the Holy Bible and much will be given to you.

We all learn from the word of God. It will amaze you, because it is as much in the time of today as in the days of old. It never changes.
I have. I went to a catholic school for 13 years, read the bible, took theology class, learned catholic apologetics. I felt nothing. Catholicism may work for you and bring you happiness and satisfaction, but it never did so for me. I don't think it is the inspired word of god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
The evidence we have is the promise from Jesus. He tells us I am leaving but I am preparing a place for you, and I will come back and get you. He keeps his promises. ANd the last day for someone is at this second. And they are at this second being received into the house of many mansions promised to them by God the Almighty.
Last I checked a promise is not evidence, it's a promise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
The only true Spirit in this world that if from God is the Advocate the Holy Spirit. All others Spirits are false. If it is a true Spirit and is the Spirit of Truth, it is send from one source the Holy Spirit which is God the Almighty.

We are taught that if God wants to send you a Spirit it will find us, we are not to go and look for it. We are warned not to do this. We trust him, and live this truth out, because we love him, and worship ONE TRUE GOD. THE HOLY SPRIIT.

God Bless
if you are content with waiting to be approached by your spirit that's fine, but you will have a tough time recognizing him when you think everything is evil.
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  #25  
Old Jul 13, '12, 12:14 pm
Hunter24 Hunter24 is offline
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Default Re: Catholic position on spirit guides

Quote:
Originally Posted by rinnie View Post
We do not believe in rebirth. It is totally against the word of God.

Heb 9:27 Just as it is appointed the Human beings die ONCE after this is judgement so also Christ offered ONCE to take away the sins of many will appear a second time, not to take away sin but to bring salvation to those who early await him.

This is our proof that we only die once, but never truly die, only a physical death, because by the taking way of sins, by the blood of Christ he gained for us eternal Life. Which is life after death which never ends.

Which this scripture shows Christ will appear a SECOND time, not be born again. He told us when he comes he will come as he left through the sky. That is not a re-brith.

He did not say he would be born again in human form to a virgin, he said that he would bring salvation to all who await him.. When you sin, it is death, death to your soul. Christ took away that death and when we obey his commands, and confess our sins, we also will have eternal life in Christ as promised.
You may not beleave it, but I do. Quoting the bible won't magicly convert me I'm afraid. To me it's just another book.
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