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  #46  
Old Jun 6, '12, 7:34 am
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catholicanne catholicanne is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Originally Posted by Portrait View Post
Dear Leo1,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good contribution, if I may say. My sentiments entirely.

This Just Love stuff is manifestly subversive and inimical to our most holy religion and justly deserves to be censured by CDF. Morevover, it exemplifies that sort of theological liberalism that places the individual as an absolute over and above Almighty God. One might wonder how it is that putative Catholics, who of their nature profess submission to God through our holy religion, could ever fall into such a trap. The answer surely lies in man's desire for autonomy, which chimes with the liberal world-view because it is fully in accord with our fallen depraved nature. Thus it is hardly surprising that many unstable and disobedient souls recalcitrantly refuse to humbly submit to the teachings of Holy Mother Church and propagate pernicious and erroneous doctrines.

Fallen men, dear friend, never cease of inventing ways to either flatly deny or compromise the absolutes of our Faith with the spirit of the godless world, which has, of course, been thoroughly permeated by liberal thinking. Far too many today, including, I am sorry to say, not a few clergy and religious, have denied the Faith and are responsible for leading others astray by their false teachings. Perhaps the words of our dear Lord have never been more applicable than they are today: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are revenous wolves" (St. Matt. 7: 15). Those who have become enslaved by the liberal ways of our days have their own formulas for man's welfare and are continually saying, even within the bosom of Holy Mother Church, 'this is the true way, walk in it and you will find peace in your soul'. Sadly in these times when many Catholics are poorly catechised, the false philosophies of liberalism can and do aquire a foothold, even within the Church. However, this should not surprise us for St. Paul predicted that after his departure from Ephesus 'grevious wolves' would bear down heavily upon the fold of the faithful (Acts 20: 29). That, said, dear friend, we should rejoice for God has assured us that any activity of forces hostile to His cause and the Church will never prevail (St. Matthew 16: 18).


God bless.


Warmest good wishes,



Portrait



Pax
Well said.
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  #47  
Old Jun 6, '12, 12:49 pm
Jimmygill88 Jimmygill88 is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

How on earth are we supposed to develop teaching unless Theologians are free to debate. It's absurd
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  #48  
Old Jun 6, '12, 1:28 pm
sedonaman sedonaman is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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How on earth are we supposed to develop teaching unless Theologians are free to debate. It's absurd
Quote:
If academic freedom is to be protected, it is important that ideologues be prevented as much as possible from abusing it in order to spread distortions or outright disinformation intended to achieve some political purpose. ... Academic freedom does not mean freedom to misrepresent, to distort, or to talk nonsense to students while enjoying security against outside criticism. Faculty members should not feel free to give students any version of the facts that those faculty members are unable or unwilling to defend in a debate with people better qualified than students are to detect errors, and if necessary to expose falsehoods.

"ABUSE OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM: WHAT SHOULD BE DONE?"
Kenneth H.W. Hilborn

http://www.safs.ca/academicfreedom/hilborn.html
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  #49  
Old Jun 6, '12, 3:18 pm
Rainaldo Rainaldo is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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"When activists ask for tolerance, they are implicitly admitting that there is something wrong with their behavior. After all, you don’t need to ask people to 'tolerate' good behavior. Mother Teresa never had to ask for tolerance." – F. Turek, Correct, Not Politically Correct
Immoral people say "I did nothing illegal"; lawbreakers say "I did nothing immoral".
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  #50  
Old Jun 6, '12, 6:25 pm
Non sum dignus Non sum dignus is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Immoral people say "I did nothing illegal"; lawbreakers say "I did nothing immoral".
That's...really good.
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  #51  
Old Jun 7, '12, 5:55 am
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NeedImprovement NeedImprovement is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Originally Posted by Rainaldo View Post
Immoral people say "I did nothing illegal"; lawbreakers say "I did nothing immoral".

That's...really good.
I'd say so too - a good reminder of the dichotomy which can exist between theory and practice . It could never be stated as an actual general rule because its premise is lacking in several senses. It hasn't dealt with the imperfect union between civil law and moral law , nor the duality concerning society's perception of the natural law , which is often opposed to the true natural law held and taught by the Church for the salvation of each person's soul.

In other words, as we are witnessing today in civil law , immoral behaviour is not only justified but held up as something good and as a right. With the current inversion of moral values in general society , the truth becomes relative . Without the absolute truth, people become more confused, simply accepting whatever society proposes to be for their benefit , ergo moral, ergo legal. But they can never really know with any certainty or precision what is right and what is wrong ;what is good and what is bad , what is moral and what is immoral without this absolute truth.

Unless we had clear universal definitions of what is immoral and what is illegal , how could it ever it be said that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainaldo View Post
Immoral people say "I did nothing illegal"; lawbreakers say "I did nothing immoral".


Even with our diverse flawed definitions, that still presents a faulty premise ; it would infer that one cannot at the same time be an immoral person and a lawbreaker.

Can a murderer say , "I did nothing illegal" (unless perhaps we are talking about the murder of abortion in a state or country [such as mine...shudder!] that has no abortion laws to protect the unborn). Similarly, can a murderer say, "I did nothing immoral."

A rapist cannot say "I did nothing illegal" , nor "I did nothing immoral."

We are all sinners , and deep down in our hearts each one of us still possesses this desire to become holy , to do what is holy . The Church nurtures this desire.

Saying “I did nothing illegal” or “I did nothing immoral” nurtures lying to ourselves – it shouldn’t be encouraged .

Unfortunately , today we find in society’s voice, the spirit of the world speaking through some of our civil laws contradicting man’s very conscience ; telling us:

“You didn’t do anything illegal - You didn’t do anything immoral.”

Critics and naysayers have absolutely no idea just how big a mess there would be if the Catholic Church had no voice.
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" ... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man…This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God"…-St. Anthony the Great
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  #52  
Old Jun 7, '12, 11:04 pm
peregrinus_sg peregrinus_sg is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Originally Posted by julesgogol View Post
Catholic dogma has changed. For example, a longstanding principle of the Church is that, "Outside the Church there is no salvation." For many years this was expressed as those "not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life," (Council of Florence, 1441). In the most recent version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church this precept has been softened to, "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994). Similarly, for many years Catholic dogma affirmed a Ptolemaic view of the universe, now the church embraces prevailing cosmological models as consistent with Catholic teachings. There are many more examples.
It is quite funny how you use the dogma "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" to support your idea that dogma has changed. Usually those who raise that point are ultra conservatives or sedevantists.

If we take a closer look at history with gards to that dogma, we would see that the alleged change in that dogma is more cosmetic than substantial, and that the position of the Church on that matter has been clarified, rather than fundamentally changed.

Basing on the apostolic teaching on the necessity of Baptism and faith in Christ for salvation, the Church Fathers affirmed that the Church knows of no other alternative means of salvation and that, therefore, the Church has a divine mission to preach the Gospel to all people since the love of God desires all men to come to salvation offered so freely in Christ. At the same time, in the face of heresies and schisms rending the unity of the Church, the Fathers affirmed that those who received Baptism and subsequently deserted the bosom of the Church to join the heretics would not be saved simply because they have been baptised: by abandoning the communion of the Catholic Church, they have cast themselves outside of the Church, the only ark of salvation given by God to all men.

Yet the Church Fathers were careful to highlight that there are others who, though visibly outside the communion of the Church, could be saved. Chief among these groups, and quite uncontroversially, were the Patriarchs, Prophets and holy men and women of the Old Testament. In fact, the Catholic Church continues to observe many of these as saints in her Martryrology. Then there was the fate of pagans who never received Baptism but who lived according to the Christian moral law. St Justin, for example, wrote "those who lived according to the Logos are considered Christians, even if they were considered atheists" and he goes on to count Socrates as a Christian! And there are other examples besides. Clearly, the Church Fathers considered those who lived good lives prior to the coming of Christ can be saved: they are still saved by Christ, whom they desired without fully perceiving him, they are still joined to the Church of Christ, in a mysterious, invisible way.

Now that Christ has come, what of those who do not visibly adhere to the Church? There is greater hesitancy now, even among the Church Fathers, though we still find statements that acknowledge that there can be those who are not within the visible bounds of the Church who are really part of the Church. St Gregory Nazienzen gives us the phrase that has been taken up by Pope Benedict prior to his election to the Chair of Peter: There are many of us, whose life makes them outside of the Church, and many who are outside who belong to the Church by their way of life that already anticipates the Faith. They have the reality (of being part of the Church) even though they lack the name. There are others besides, and none has been censured by the Pontiffs for heresy in this matter!

So the Church has always held to both truths: that there is only one Savior: Christ, and that no one is saved apart from Christ and hence, his Church, which is his Body; at the same time, there are those who, through no fault of their own, have not come to know Christ, but who live according to the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, can still be saved. The Church knows of no other alternative, so this latter group is always more tentative, entrusting to the mercy of God. The term 'invincible/inculpable ignorance' is used to describe this latter group. It is this latter criteria of invincible ignorance where we see the clarifications and refinement of Church teaching.

In the time of the Church Fathers, Catholics who abandoned the Church to join heretical sects do not qualify under invincible ignorance. By the time of the Council of Florence, the Council Fathers had assumed that everyone should have heard (and hence realised the truth of the Gospel) so that they could not feign ignorance. Subsequent development of thought opened the possibility that even those who have heard might remain inculpably unconvinced, perhaps because of the weakness and bad examples of generations of Christians, certainly of the current division and dissent within the Church. So, in some sense, the bar for invincible ignorance has been periodically raised and lowered, but this bar was never part of dogma. Don't forget that when Fr Feeney was reconciled, who taught that all outside the visible boundary of the Church were condemned to hell and was subsequently excommunicated, , he was not required to recant his extreme position. The bar for invincible ignorance was never fixed and remain open to different interpretations.

So in fact, there is no substantial change in Church teaching over this matter. Dominus Iesus affirmed what has always been central to the faith: there is only one Savior, Jesus Christ, and one mean of salvation: the Catholic Church. The only way we know by which we are clearly incorporated into the Church is through Baptism and remaining in visible communion with her. There may be others who, through no fault of their own, are not visibly joined to the Church but are nonetheless united to her in a mysterious fashion by the work of the Holy Spirit. On this earth, we will never know with certitude who these are. Therefore, the mission that we hear at every Consecration "the Blood of Christ is poured out for many" impels us to be faithful to our mission, so that this "many" is extended to embrace all people visibly. This is part of the legitimate development of doctrine, not a reversal of doctrine.

Ptolemic universe is not part of the Church's faith, only a commonly held worldview by which people understand the world around them.
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  #53  
Old Jun 8, '12, 4:44 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith contacted Sr. Margaret A. Farley twice about doctrinal errors in 'Just Love' inviting her to correct them, but when the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith did not find her responses satisfactory they issued the notification 6 years after the book came out:

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  #54  
Old Jun 8, '12, 6:55 am
markomalley markomalley is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Originally Posted by peregrinus_sg View Post
It is quite funny how you use the dogma "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" to support your idea that dogma has changed. Usually those who raise that point are ultra conservatives or sedevantists.
Funny how you should mention that, as the origin of the term, "invincible ignorance",was none other than the beloved Pio Nono, in his encyclical, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore . I don't know of too many ultra conservatives who reject pope. Nor sedevacanists...
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  #55  
Old Jun 9, '12, 4:02 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

Same revolution, different day: US nun touts gay sex, liberal Catholics outraged at Vatican response
Quote:
Once again, the various bodies of the “progressive” establishment in the U.S. Catholic Church have erupted in a frenzy of outraged condemnation at the Vatican office issuing a warning this week to an academic who wrote that homosexuality and masturbation are morally acceptable.

..


Monsignor Ignacio Barreiro, the head of the Rome office of Human Life International and a long-time observer of Vatican affairs, commented on the situation, saying that the same essential error being made by Sr. Farley, her defenders, and by extension the entire “liberal Catholic” movement, has dominated the Church since the 1960s. Not even the CDF, not even the pope, he said, makes up Catholic doctrine, but the Church merely keeps it as a “deposit” handed down, ultimately, Catholics believe, from Christ himself, to be passed on and shared with “everyone of good will”.

“That is what Christ established. The main function of the Vicar of Christ [the papacy] is to determine what is in accordance with the will of the Lord. A traditional title of the pope is ‘servant of the servants of god’. It’s a duty of service.”

If this is altered through adherence to the preferences of the secular world, he said, “that is not the institution established by Jesus Christ. It would be a human institution. The value of the Catholic Church is that we are an institution established by God in order to keep the integrity of the deposit given to us by God. We are not the owners of that deposit, but we are to give it to people of good will.”

In response to the accusations of suppression of freedom, Msgr. Barreiro said, “The Vatican has as part of its duties to establish what is and is not Catholic teaching. The Church is not forcing people to be Catholic, but it has a duty of service to ensure the orthodoxy and accuracy of its teachings,” and to correct misrepresentations of it.

“We dare to deny that opposition to this is acceptable within the Church,” he said, adding that “if they don’t accept it, it’s sad, but it is a function of the truth.”

In cases like that of Sr. Farley he said:
A person who calls herself a Catholic has to write and teach in accordance with the teaching of the Church. To do otherwise is to defy not only Catholic teaching, but logic.”

To clarify, if you are a member of a club, and you want to remain the member of that club, you have to follow the rules, if you don’t, you’re not being “suppressed” if the club asks you to leave. Similarly, If you pretend to play soccer, you have to follow the rules of soccer, otherwise you are not playing the same game. You invent your own game, and you play in accordance with the rules of the new game, that could be called soccer 2. But it’s no longer soccer; it’s a different game.

If…they want to follow their own rules, fine, but it’s not Catholicism; it’s a different religion. We don’t pretend to use force against different religions, but they have to be honest and not call themselves what they are not.
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  #56  
Old Jun 9, '12, 10:28 am
Cactus Cactus is offline
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

I recall how Peter, the first pope, in the Acts of the Apostles dealt with Ananias and Saphira in the matter of them holding back part of the proceeds of a sale of property. That was, no doubt, a trivial sum compared to modern-day larcenies against the Church. It seems to me that this sister's rebellion is far more egregious in that it emperals the souls of others. In light of the swift and summary judgement of Peter in the first case, and knowing that patience has its limits, I recommend that Sister and her co-rebellionists change their tune, real soon.
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  #57  
Old Jun 10, '12, 10:45 am
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Default Re: CDF publishes notification on book ‘Just Love’

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Originally Posted by Jimmygill88 View Post
How on earth are we supposed to develop teaching unless Theologians are free to debate. It's absurd
Please read this to understand that there are theologians who seek the truth, and theologians who seek to modify the truth. We must Pray for Grace to discern between the two.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm


"1. One of the primary obligations assigned by Christ to the office divinely committed to Us of feeding the Lord's flock is that of guarding with the greatest vigilance the deposit of the faith delivered to the saints, rejecting the profane novelties of words and the gainsaying of knowledge falsely so called. There has never been a time when this watchfulness of the supreme pastor was not necessary to the Catholic body, for owing to the efforts of the enemy of the human race, there have never been lacking "men speaking perverse things,"1 "vain talkers and seducers,"2 "erring and driving into error."3 It must, however, be confessed that these latter days have witnessed a notable increase in the number of the enemies of the Cross of Christ, who, by arts entirely new and full of deceit, are striving to destroy the vital energy of the Church, and, as far as in them lies, utterly to subvert the very Kingdom of Christ. Wherefore We may no longer keep silence, lest We should seem to fail in Our most sacred duty, and lest the kindness that, in the hope of wiser counsels, We have hitherto shown them, should be set down to lack of diligence in the discharge of Our office."

Call me old fashioned, but i would welcome a return to all Catholic writers submitting their work to the CDF for approvalbefore publishing. And hymnals too!
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