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  #76  
Old Mar 15, '13, 10:43 am
PJM PJM is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

Quote:
=Eufrosnia;10489332]I am not saying it is my personal preference. I am just pointing out that it is a confusing act that is open to the average Catholic to interpret.

The average Catholic interprets, with the spirit of the times, that this means all Christians are in communion with the Church. No one has errors and we are all just trying to figure out which Church is right. Protestant ministers have holy orders etc.

Now this is not just for the average Catholic. The average Protestant will see this and think the same.

Even worse, the average Orthodox member will see this and think the same. I've had quiet a number of situations where I have had to clarify that the Catholic Church does not accept such positions only to be told that the Pope or Cardinal so and so thought otherwise when they did X.

Now can this be avoided? Yes, the Church leaders could

1) Avoid such events or specific actions in such events that lead to confusion to both parties (Protestant or Catholic)

2) Constantly teach and remind the faithful as to the goal of ecumenism. People tend to slide on this one to indifferentism, especially the parish priests themselves.

3) Clarify honestly to the other party that we do indeed think them to be in error rather than try to sugar coat it. One could even point out how obviously the Catholic Church is in error according to the position of the other discussion party. Then both can perhaps proceed to, for the analysis and discussion, to act as agnostics with respect to either position.
SADLY
The "average catholic" is uniformed; under Catechized and GREATLY in need of a right and full Catholic Faith Formation. compensating for this evident lack of what NEEDS to be done hardly seems IMO; the way to correct the problem.

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  #77  
Old Mar 15, '13, 10:49 am
Eufrosnia Eufrosnia is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by PJM View Post
SADLY
The "average catholic" is uniformed; under Catechized and GREATLY in need of a right and full Catholic Faith Formation. compensating for this evident lack of what NEEDS to be done hardly seems IMO; the way to correct the problem.

Let us Pray
If the average Catholic is indeed under Catechized as you say, then it is indeed something you need to compensate for. First you need to get the Church to the point where you can say the average Catholic knows their faith. There will always be those who are poorly catechized but that is ok. At least get it to the point of having a healthy average. THEN you can start ecumenism.

Right now, we are doing ecumenism while the average Catholic has no clue what is being done. They sit there taking their best guess in accord with the spirit of the times and assume that "YES, the Church has finally come around and proclaims that all religions are just as true as Catholicism and no one is in error", "YES, I can now marry a non-Catholic and raise my kids according to his/her religion (or both) if needed because there is nothing different between us", or "Protestant ministers have authority just as much as a priest does" etc. I sometimes wonder if Parish priests infer this way after seeing these things too.

If the Church leaders are screwing up their average follower, that surely cannot be a good thing, yes? So I think we do have to take the average in to account. Fix it. Then move on to make sure they are continuously reminded as we engage in ecumenism.
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  #78  
Old Mar 15, '13, 11:49 am
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

One must always consider the source before sending out the fire alarms, especially with Traditioninaction, as I mentioned before. I just found this article refuting the allegations as being false. Of course, the Remnant is also known to have a strong bias for tradition, and it would really serve their purpose to be in accord with the former website ... yet they denouce the photo as being false.

Quote:
There is a photograph flying around the internet at warp speed that appears to be of Cardinal Bergoglio receiving a blessing from a Protestant minister. Unsettling? Sure, but it now turns out that Cardinal Bergolio was in fact kneeling to receive a blessing from a Catholic priest when said Protestant minister stepped in to add his own two cents.
http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/
That Catholic priest is the preacher to the papal household, very reverend Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa. All these feathers fluffed over a rumor. Since none of us were there, and nobody knows what really took place, it is absurd to place 100% credence in a photo. This was an ecumenical gathering, similar to what we do here in my diocese during lent, so even if the photo is true, we see Fr. Cantalamessa's hand raised in blessing, and the others have joined in the prayer.

Fr. Raniero may have been asked for a blessing prior to Fr. Jorge delivering a teaching. This happens frequently at mass when the celebrant blesses the deacon or other celebrant prior to proclaiming the gospel.

Last edited by Sirach2; Mar 15, '13 at 11:59 am.
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  #79  
Old Mar 15, '13, 2:14 pm
Eufrosnia Eufrosnia is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
One must always consider the source before sending out the fire alarms, especially with Traditioninaction, as I mentioned before. I just found this article refuting the allegations as being false. Of course, the Remnant is also known to have a strong bias for tradition, and it would really serve their purpose to be in accord with the former website ... yet they denouce the photo as being false.



That Catholic priest is the preacher to the papal household, very reverend Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa. All these feathers fluffed over a rumor. Since none of us were there, and nobody knows what really took place, it is absurd to place 100% credence in a photo. This was an ecumenical gathering, similar to what we do here in my diocese during lent, so even if the photo is true, we see Fr. Cantalamessa's hand raised in blessing, and the others have joined in the prayer.

Fr. Raniero may have been asked for a blessing prior to Fr. Jorge delivering a teaching. This happens frequently at mass when the celebrant blesses the deacon or other celebrant prior to proclaiming the gospel.
Well the fact that someone had to explain shows the importance. On the other hand all of this could have been avoided if priests wore their cassocks or dressed in a way that one could recognize them. I believe that it is indeed a part of church law that a priest dress in such a way that he can be distinguished.

BUT, THANK YOU for clarifying this matter.

EDIT: Never-mind what I said above I understand what is claimed to have happened now. A good case of not making it clear to the Protestant parties as to the goal and how the church views them.
As I said before, communication is paramount in ecumenism. This includes all parties knowing what exactly is the point of these endeavors. I know you said it happens in your church during lent. They happen in mind too. Doesn't change the fact that it confuses a lot of average Catholics and Protestants every time it happens.
That being said, the whole explanation feels rather ....convenient. Still, it may well be what happened. But what I appreciate is that at least there is an effort to explain it rather than accept it as FINE.
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  #80  
Old Mar 15, '13, 2:52 pm
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Eufrosnia View Post
Well the fact that someone had to explain shows the importance. On the other hand all of this could have been avoided if priests wore their cassocks or dressed in a way that one could recognize them. I believe that it is indeed a part of church law that a priest dress in such a way that he can be distinguished.

BUT, THANK YOU for clarifying this matter.
You're welcome. Something doesn't ring true with this, and I pulled another sideview of Pope Francis, and zoomed my photo from both sources, and it doesn't appear to be the same man. He is not wearing glasses in TIA's, and his other sideview facial features do not match. Since he attended that function, and knowing how TIA deliberately distorts things, it may be someone else purported to be him.

I did note that the person kneeling was not wearing clerical attire, although one could hardly mistake Fr. Cantalamessa. Does Fr. Jorge customarily appear in street clothers? Lots of unknowns. All in all, it is just a lot of nasty fluff that has been circulating all over the web since the Holy Father was elected. The smoke was barely extingished in the Vatican's chimney when it began.
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  #81  
Old Mar 15, '13, 2:55 pm
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Lormar Lormar is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
You're welcome. Something doesn't ring true with this, and I pulled another sideview of Pope Francis, and zoomed my photo from both sources, and it doesn't appear to be the same man. He is not wearing glasses in TIA's, and his other sideview facial features do not match. Since he attended that function, and knowing how TIA deliberately distorts things, it may be someone else purported to be him.

I did note that the person kneeling was not wearing clerical attire, although one could hardly mistake Fr. Cantalamessa. Does Fr. Jorge customarily appear in street clothers? Lots of unknowns. All in all, it is just a lot of nasty fluff that has been circulating all over the web since the Holy Father was elected. The smoke was barely extingished in the Vatican's chimney when it began.
And it hasn't stopped and is starting to get ridiculous (one of the latest I just saw: "Fr. Gruner receives letter from Pope Francis" - no - I didn't read about it). I don't remember any of this when Benedict XVI became pope. Prior to that, we did not have the internet.
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  #82  
Old Mar 15, '13, 3:23 pm
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Sirach2 Sirach2 is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Lormar View Post
And it hasn't stopped and is starting to get ridiculous (one of the latest I just saw: "Fr. Gruner receives letter from Pope Francis" - no - I didn't read about it). I don't remember any of this when Benedict XVI became pope. Prior to that, we did not have the internet.
And here we are -- spending time disproving rumors, rather than interiorizing his beautiful spirit, listening to his words, and praying for him to guide us. How many posts now has this thread been in derailment? How many more threads of a similar nature will surface?
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  #83  
Old Mar 15, '13, 3:44 pm
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Lormar Lormar is offline
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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Originally Posted by Sirach2 View Post
And here we are -- spending time disproving rumors, rather than interiorizing his beautiful spirit, listening to his words, and praying for him to guide us. How many posts now has this thread been in derailment? How many more threads of a similar nature will surface?
There is an abundance of them on CAF in every subforum.

The internet is a very useful tool, but it can also be used for disinformation to spread confusion and cause division. Which is what is happening now. As if we already don't have enough of both - division and confusion.
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  #84  
Old Mar 15, '13, 7:48 pm
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Thomas Casey Thomas Casey is online now
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Default Re: Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!

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