Was Jesus a Catholic? - Page 3

Charlemagne II · #31 Jul 24, '12, 9:11 am

Obviously Jesus was born a Jew. Did he die a Jew? Was he resurrected a Jew?

He instituted the Sacrament of the Eucharist before he died. Do the Jews believe in the Eucharist?

He taught that he was divine. Did the Jews believe in the divinity of Jesus?

He taught that he had come to save all mankind. Did the Jews believe any such thing, or did they believe they were the exclusive, chosen people?

Do any of the Jewish denominations existing today claim him as a Jew in good standing with their denomination?

After his Resurrection when he returned to instruct the apostles and send them on their apostolic mission, does he send them to teach the old commandments, or "a new commandment I give unto you"?

When he gave all authority to Peter and the apostles, does it look like he is giving no authority to the Sanhedrin?

When he says "I will build my Church" does it sound like it is going to be his church or the old Synagogue?

When he tells the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, does it sound like he wants them to give a Jewish baptism?

Etc., etc.

austenbosten · #32 Jul 24, '12, 11:16 am

The point is Jesus was not a Catholic, the same way HaShem is not Jewish. (or do you all believe God the Father is Jewish because He gave the faith to the tribe of Israel?)

The first Catholics would have been the Apostles. Jesus could not be a Catholic because he wasn't practicing the Catholic faith, but in fact the Jewish faith. Also for Jesus not to have been a Jew, meant that he wasn't the Messiah....you people seem to forget that if the OT is false, then that would make the NT false aswell. The OT prophecies clearly stated that the Messiah was to be Jewish and would erect a new covenant.

The truth is Christianity really is Jewish, we both believe in the same God who blessed the same people and hold true to the same laws and Tanahk....however we had a schism between those who believed Christ is the Messiah and those who don't. Those who didn't continued on with their faith and had to modify it after the destruction of the Temple, while the others who believed in the Messiah added new books to the Tanahk and formed the NT and built their faith around the New Covenant....Jesus Christ.

However I find it interesting that some Catholics on here seem to disagree with me and many members of the Church who seem to see what I see.

Typist · #33 Jul 24, '12, 11:27 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by austenbosten

However I find it interesting that some Catholics on here seem to disagree with me and many members of the Church who seem to see what I see.

This is the inevitable destination of any ideology (not just Christianity).

Ideology is made of thought. Thought is inherently divisive.

Thus, ideologies always divide, and subdivide, and subdivide further until we reach the point where almost everybody is squabbling with almost everybody else.

As evidence, see how this happens even with an ideology that is explicitly about love.

SaintPatrick333 · #34 Jul 24, '12, 11:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by marty1818

Jesus was not a Catholic, he was a Jew.

This post explains it:
http://forums.catholic.com/showthrea...jesus+catholic

He was born and lived as a practicing Jew yes, but I've always held the belief that Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism just as Christ is the fulfillment of the Messiah. If Judaism (as it were) were correct than Christ would not have needed to establish an earthly authority and teach things that stand independent from jewish beliefs (such as the Trinity for one)

austenbosten · #35 Jul 24, '12, 11:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintPatrick333

He was born and lived as a practicing Jew yes, but I've always held the belief that Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism just as Christ is the fulfillment of the Messiah. If Judaism (as it were) were correct than Christ would not have needed to establish an earthly authority and teach things that stand independent from jewish beliefs (such as the Trinity for one)

I don't think any of us are saying Jesus was Jewish, therefore Judaism is correct. What we are saying is the Catholicism is not a seperate faith, but in fact the fulfillment of the Jewish faith of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Moses. As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses's law, but fulfill them.

Charlemagne II · #36 Jul 24, '12, 11:59 am

austebbosten

As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses's law, but fulfill them.

And he did. He is the bridge between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was exclusively with the Jews. The New Covenant was with universal (catholic) mankind.

I take it you believe Christ advocated the New Covenant over the Old Covenant.

austenbosten · #37 Jul 24, '12, 2:25 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

austebbosten

As Christ said He did not come to remove Moses's law, but fulfill them.

And he did. He is the bridge between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The Old Covenant was exclusively with the Jews. The New Covenant was with universal (catholic) mankind.

I take it you believe Christ advocated the New Covenant over the Old Covenant.

Yes I do. Christ is the New Covenant, but that doesn't mean he was a Catholic, it simply meant he brought Judaism in the form of the New Covenant to the whole world. He brought an elevated form of Judaism to the world. However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter.

Charlemagne II · #38 Jul 24, '12, 4:10 pm

ausrenbosten

However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter.

And Plato was not a Platonist even though he founded a school of philosophy named after him.

He lived part of his life as a Jew, and the last part of his life teaching and dying for the New Covenant which he left to the Catholic Church, not to the Old Covenant Jews.

austenbosten · #39 Jul 24, '12, 4:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

ausrenbosten

However Jesus did not live his life as a Catholic, even though He began the Catholic faith and handed the Keys to Saint Peter.

And Plato was not a Platonist even though he founded a school of philosophy named after him.

He lived part of his life as a Jew, and the last part of his life teaching and dying for the New Covenant which he left to the Catholic Church, not to the Old Covenant Jews.

Look we're not going to agree on this. So let's just agree to disagree.

Charlemagne II · #40 Jul 28, '12, 12:52 pm

Look we're not going to agree on this. So let's just agree to disagree.

Rhuarc · #41 Jul 28, '12, 12:59 pm

Technically if the Jews had not been obstinate with the Lord there would be no Catholic it would simply be Jew. It is when it was readily apparent that the Church could not keep their Jewish identity and had to move onto the ways of Christ that we were called Catholics (or simply Christian if you like).

**PRmerger** · #42 Jul 29, '12, 7:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlemagne II

I think Jesus was a Catholic since it's clear he was not a Protestant. To have been a Protestant would mean he was protesting the universal Church he intended to build.

So then the question is, why do Protestants say the Catholic Church was a rebellion against Christ? When did it begin to revolt, from the Protestant point of view? If Protestants are sincere about this conviction, they must have some evidence that the Church went off the tracks that Christ built for it. When would that be? What century? What Council? What doctrines reveal that the Church became heretical from the Protestant view?

Any Protestant takers?

Catholics have priests. Jesus was The Priest.
Catholics have the Eucharist. Jesus was The Eucharist.
Catholics honor Mary. Jesus honored His Mother.
Catholics proclaim the primacy of Peter. Jesus proclaimed the primacy of Peter.
Catholics have the Divine Liturgy. Jesus presided/presides at the Divine Liturgy.
Catholics proclaim the fullness of Truth through Scripture and Tradition. Jesus proclaimed the Truth of the Scriptures and Tradition.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was a Catholic.

empther · #43 Jul 30, '12, 8:18 am

In Heaven everybody will be a Catholic.

So Jesus must have been Catholic.

Charlemagne II · #44 Jul 30, '12, 9:26 am

Rhuarc

Technically if the Jews had not been obstinate with the Lord there would be no Catholic it would simply be Jew. It is when it was readily apparent that the Church could not keep their Jewish identity and had to move onto the ways of Christ that we were called Catholics (or simply Christian if you like).

The Jews began to persecute the followers of the Way right away (Paul participated in the persecution). So the followers of Jesus knew from the start they were not going to be held to many of the Jewish traditions. The Council of Jerusalem certainly settled the matter, that the Jews were no longer the specially chosen people set apart from all others, since Christ had come to save all others through the universal Church that he created and established with Peter at the helm. Jews were invited into the new Church (indeed, most of the early Christians were Jews), but the new universal Covenant had replaced the old one.