[MOVIE]: Brave - Page 18

**JharekCarnelian** · #**256** Jul 27, '12, 8:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwizzleStick

I haven't viewed it in several years (my daughter is 16

), but I remember that I loved the animation, the rich, bold colors. I also loved that Belle was smart and strong and a well-developed character, though Gaston was rather a caricature. I need to watch it again.

I will admit the fact that Belle was a girl with a brain and highly intelligent in her own right is one of it's stronger points. I keep thinking of Ron Perlman though in the old TV series 'Beauty and the Beast' if I watch it nowadays.

**edwest2** · #**257** Jul 27, '12, 9:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

Perhaps it's about control and pride? Perhaps some men feel "emasculated" by strong women?

Please define "strong women" as opposed to just women in general. I mean that with all due respect. Here is where I would like to be informed:

From a review published in the Detroit News:

"And the movie comes alive. Up until this point, the film has mostly been a lot of standard gags focusing on how how stupid Scotsmen are -- seriously, the nation should sue -- and proto-feminist blustering by Merida about the plight of princesses."

"proto-feminist"?

Peace,
Ed

**JharekCarnelian** · #**258** Jul 27, '12, 10:06 am

Have you actually seen the movie yourself yet ed?

Baelor · #**259** Jul 27, '12, 10:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwest2

Please define "strong women" as opposed to just women in general. I mean that with all due respect. Here is where I would like to be informed:

A starting definition is probably a woman of strong constitution and fortitude who is confident in her abilities. This clearly does not apply to every woman, thus a distinction is made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Have you actually seen the movie yourself yet ed?

Have you?

AngryAtheist8 · #**260** Jul 27, '12, 1:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Have you actually seen the movie yourself yet ed?

I am guessing that he hasn't.

Debora123 · #**261** Jul 27, '12, 6:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwest2

Please define "strong women" as opposed to just women in general. I mean that with all due respect. Here is where I would like to be informed:

From a review published in the Detroit News:

"And the movie comes alive. Up until this point, the film has mostly been a lot of standard gags focusing on how how stupid Scotsmen are -- seriously, the nation should sue -- and proto-feminist blustering by Merida about the plight of princesses."

"proto-feminist"?

Peace,
Ed

I'll give you 2 examples of what a strong female lead is NOT - Disney's Sleeping Beauty, and Disney's Snow White...

... And 2 examples of what I consider a strong female lead to be Disney's Mulan, and Katniss from the Hunger Games.

Marida is also a strong female lead, but I didn't like that movie very much. It was too silly.

I have no idea what "proto-feminist" means. But the movie Brave had no negative, anti Christian type of feminism in it at all.

Debora123 · #**262** Jul 27, '12, 6:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JharekCarnelian

Have you actually seen the movie yourself yet ed?

Of course not.

Debora123 · #**263** Jul 27, '12, 6:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baelor

A starting definition is probably a woman of strong constitution and fortitude who is confident in her abilities. This clearly does not apply to every woman, thus a distinction is made.

Yes, this is a good description. Thank you.

**edwest2** · #**264** Jul 27, '12, 8:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debora123

I'll give you 2 examples of what a strong female lead is NOT - Disney's Sleeping Beauty, and Disney's Snow White...

... And 2 examples of what I consider a strong female lead to be Disney's Mulan, and Katniss from the Hunger Games.

Marida is also a strong female lead, but I didn't like that movie very much. It was too silly.

I have no idea what "proto-feminist" means. But the movie Brave had no negative, anti Christian type of feminism in it at all.

Thank you for your reply.

Peace,
Ed

Mary Gail 36 · #**265** Jul 28, '12, 10:04 am

I'm not sure I agree that Snow White is a bad example of "strong". She wasn't physically strong in a sense, but she was very good and virtuous.

It's been a while, but if I recall Snow White was supposed to be slain by the huntsman on behalf of the wicked queen.. Snow White's virtue endeared her to the Dwarfs. She didn't wait around to be saved, she was poisoned. The prince recognized her and kissed her. They had met before.

Let's take another film... "Gone With the Wind"

Which protagonist is a better example -- Melanie or Scarlet? Scarlet might seem "strong" but where is her virtue? She pines away for a married man through 3 marriages. She does not express any love for anyone except herself. She exclaims, "I hate Melanie and her baby". She banishes her husband from her bedroom because she wants to keep a tiny waist and wants no more children.

Melanie on the other hand, wow, how many good virtues did she have? The scene at Ashley's birthday party, where everyone present had found out about the kiss between Ashley and Scarlet. Did Melanie react with revenge? She embrace Scarlet. That's not the move of a "weak woman".

Anyway, back to Brave, I liked it a great deal, because of the mother daughter relationship. It didn't have much to do with a girl saving the day, but how a mother and daughter rectified their relationship.

AngryAtheist8 · #**266** Jul 28, '12, 5:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36

I'm not sure I agree that Snow White is a bad example of "strong". She wasn't physically strong in a sense, but she was very good and virtuous.

It's been a while, but if I recall Snow White was supposed to be slain by the huntsman on behalf of the wicked queen.. Snow White's virtue endeared her to the Dwarfs. She didn't wait around to be saved, she was poisoned. The prince recognized her and kissed her. They had met before.

Let's take another film... "Gone With the Wind"

Which protagonist is a better example -- Melanie or Scarlet? Scarlet might seem "strong" but where is her virtue? She pines away for a married man through 3 marriages. She does not express any love for anyone except herself. She exclaims, "I hate Melanie and her baby". She banishes her husband from her bedroom because she wants to keep a tiny waist and wants no more children.

Melanie on the other hand, wow, how many good virtues did she have? The scene at Ashley's birthday party, where everyone present had found out about the kiss between Ashley and Scarlet. Did Melanie react with revenge? She embrace Scarlet. That's not the move of a "weak woman".

Anyway, back to Brave, I liked it a great deal, because of the mother daughter relationship. It didn't have much to do with a girl saving the day, but how a mother and daughter rectified their relationship.

I don't think Snow White (the Disney version) was strong in any sense.
When did she ever stand up for herself (or anyone else)?
Never from what I recall.

As for Gone with the Wind...
Appeasing everyone (particularly your enemies) is not a sign of strength.
It is generally a sign of incredible weakness.

Debora123 · #**267** Jul 28, '12, 6:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8

I don't think Snow White (the Disney version) was strong in any sense.
When did she ever stand up for herself (or anyone else)?
Never from what I recall.

I agree. All she did was cook and clean for 7 men and then get rescued by a prince. And then there was that one scene where she was in the forest and got all terrified at the sound of crickets.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely like Disney's Snow White very much, but I absolutely would not say she's a strong female lead.

nichola · #**268** Aug 17, '12, 2:22 pm

I went to see this a few days ago and I enjoyed it, but it wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be.