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  #31  
Old Jun 11, '12, 1:13 am
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choliks choliks is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Why are the Jesuits "without boundaries?"

- Find God in all things.
- Do everything for God's greater glory.
- Magis.

And the best way to do this is through Ignatian spirituality (soul), missionary work (heart), and academics (mind).

This is just my understanding of the Jesuits.

My question is: Why do people, particularly American Catholics, suddenly get the hives when social justice and the Jesuits are mentioned in the same sentence?

Watch this and you might get an idea on how the Jesuits see Social Justice...
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leieHTWlon0
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joTiQMRom7Y
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasw0ucvn_M
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMf4BAXJKCk

Enjoy.
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  #32  
Old Jun 11, '12, 7:28 am
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choliks View Post
Why are the Jesuits "without boundaries?"
This was the way that St. Ignatius set them up.

Quote:
My question is: Why do people, particularly American Catholics, suddenly get the hives when social justice and the Jesuits are mentioned in the same sentence?
Bl. John Paul said of Americans that we tend to think that our economic, political and military advantage has given us an intellectual advantage. In fact, these things have dulled our intellectual functioning, because for a long time, we have felt very secure that we could solve any problem and rise up to any situation. We didn't need to think. We could resolve a problem by a push of button.

The Jesuits have proven that assumption wrong. They push the limits. They challenge. They stir the pot and Americans feel frustrated, because here is this insignificant little order of 18,000 men that we cannot control by pushing a button. Yet we can control the world's economy and keep the world at peace or draw it into a war that will destroy humanity.

In other words, the Jesuits prove to the American people that we're not as smart as we think, just like Bl. John Paul said.

More than the radical positions that some Jesuits take, the thing that really angers many Americans is that they don't have the power to silence the Jesuits. Americans don't handle powerlessness very well. We're not very humble people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
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  #33  
Old Jun 11, '12, 8:09 am
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choliks View Post
Why are the Jesuits "without boundaries?"

- Find God in all things.
- Do everything for God's greater glory.
- Magis.

And the best way to do this is through Ignatian spirituality (soul), missionary work (heart), and academics (mind).

This is just my understanding of the Jesuits.

My question is: Why do people, particularly American Catholics, suddenly get the hives when social justice and the Jesuits are mentioned in the same sentence?

Watch this and you might get an idea on how the Jesuits see Social Justice...
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leieHTWlon0
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joTiQMRom7Y
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dasw0ucvn_M
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMf4BAXJKCk

Enjoy.
It is my understanding that part of the problem is that some Jesuits working in Central and South America became involved in the "liberation theology" movement, which was Communism thinly disguised. Thus, the Jesuits were directly supporting Communism. That is where things went awry, in my reading. When a religious society ends up going that far astray there is reason to question them.
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  #34  
Old Jun 11, '12, 8:43 am
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane View Post
It is my understanding that part of the problem is that some Jesuits working in Central and South America became involved in the "liberation theology" movement, which was Communism thinly disguised. Thus, the Jesuits were directly supporting Communism. That is where things went awry, in my reading. When a religious society ends up going that far astray there is reason to question them.
Juliane, you have to remember that some is not the same as an entire religious order. There were some Franciscans, Marknoll, Passionists, Dominicans, and Vicentians as well. But the others were simply penalized and life went on. The Jesuits have been trashed by Catholics and have not been allowed to go on about their business without being treated in a very disgusting way.

We can question or ask questions. We can't ruin someone's good name. That's what many Catholics take great pride in doing to Jesuits. An example is in these forums. When a young man expresses an interest in the Jesuits, it never fails that someone refers them to another community, because allegedly there is something wrong with the Jesuits. Discouraging vocations to a religious order is a form of damaging its good name and a death wish. Without vocations, an order dies. The same paragons of orthodoxy are often paragons of cruelty and slander.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
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Fraternally,

Brother JR, FFV

"Forget not love."
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  #35  
Old Jun 11, '12, 5:40 pm
Alan55 Alan55 is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Please note that the Jesuits encourage and accept vocations in each of their provinces. If you are interested in learning more about the Jesuits, one great way is to contact the vocation director in the province in which you are located. For example, I grew up in Maine, which is in the New England Province, whose novitiate is in Boston, MA. You can find out more information about this at the Jesuit website (look for "Provinces"):

http://www.jesuit.org/

The Jesuits are the largest missionary order in the Church. In addition, they run 28 colleges and universities in the U.S. and many high schools as well. Also, many are involved in parishes, spirituality (retreat houses, spiritual direction, etc.), and a host of other ministries.
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  #36  
Old Jun 11, '12, 6:37 pm
TheRealJuliane TheRealJuliane is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JReducation View Post
Juliane, you have to remember that some is not the same as an entire religious order. There were some Franciscans, Marknoll, Passionists, Dominicans, and Vicentians as well. But the others were simply penalized and life went on. The Jesuits have been trashed by Catholics and have not been allowed to go on about their business without being treated in a very disgusting way.

We can question or ask questions. We can't ruin someone's good name. That's what many Catholics take great pride in doing to Jesuits. An example is in these forums. When a young man expresses an interest in the Jesuits, it never fails that someone refers them to another community, because allegedly there is something wrong with the Jesuits. Discouraging vocations to a religious order is a form of damaging its good name and a death wish. Without vocations, an order dies. The same paragons of orthodoxy are often paragons of cruelty and slander.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
You know, Brother JR, you are right. "Some" Jesuits is not the whole order. And I wasn't careful enough about what I wrote. But I do not slander the entire order. As I said earlier, both of my sons have now graduated from a Jesuit high school and been in contact with some VERY holy brothers and priests. So I am not at all trying to discourage vocations to this order. (Although I will admit to being a little prejudiced toward the Franciscans...)
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  #37  
Old Jun 12, '12, 10:38 pm
john78 john78 is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

I have been doing some research on the Jesuits from the website posted in this thread, which lead me to the Louisiana section and in turn reading further on i found that it takes around 12-15 years to become a Jesuit Priest...

some where in the process one becomes a deacon ( the title of which i do not recall )

so and maybe these are questions for a vocation director but feel it might be quicker to ask it here...

while one is going through this 15 year process, and moving through the ranks, what becomes their mission in the mean time ? at some point school ends, and one graduates, does one remain a deacon at a parish, or are they sent on different missions ?

That and they take a vow of poverty, I " have things " but barely at that, i have access to the internet, a large dvd collection, a paid for vehicle which i didnt souly pay for just partially, some other nick nacks from over the years, and i enjoy art and am fairly good at it and have supplies from photograph equipment to drawing/painting items.

I have never had such a stable job that i accumulated a large amount of money to live off of or be considered rich... I dont own high tech things such as ipads, cellphones, game platforms.

so how poor is this life of poverty ? I have probably had the same clothes for over 2 yrs i loath shopping for clothes hence why i keep what i wear for as long as i can.

and Why does it take 12-15 yrs to become a Jesuit Priest versus a regular priest/ parish priest.

and I was looking at the numbers of Jesuits roughly close to 17 thousand, broken down into different catageories.... do Jesuit Priests ever get assigned to a bishop and parish due to lack of regular priests ?

any insight or answers , suggestions would be appreciated.
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  #38  
Old Jun 13, '12, 2:45 am
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JReducation JReducation is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john78 View Post
I have been doing some research on the Jesuits from the website posted in this thread, which lead me to the Louisiana section and in turn reading further on i found that it takes around 12-15 years to become a Jesuit Priest...

some where in the process one becomes a deacon ( the title of which i do not recall )

so and maybe these are questions for a vocation director but feel it might be quicker to ask it here...

while one is going through this 15 year process, and moving through the ranks, what becomes their mission in the mean time ? at some point school ends, and one graduates, does one remain a deacon at a parish, or are they sent on different missions ?

That and they take a vow of poverty, I " have things " but barely at that, i have access to the internet, a large dvd collection, a paid for vehicle which i didnt souly pay for just partially, some other nick nacks from over the years, and i enjoy art and am fairly good at it and have supplies from photograph equipment to drawing/painting items.

I have never had such a stable job that i accumulated a large amount of money to live off of or be considered rich... I dont own high tech things such as ipads, cellphones, game platforms.

so how poor is this life of poverty ? I have probably had the same clothes for over 2 yrs i loath shopping for clothes hence why i keep what i wear for as long as i can.

and Why does it take 12-15 yrs to become a Jesuit Priest versus a regular priest/ parish priest.

and I was looking at the numbers of Jesuits roughly close to 17 thousand, broken down into different catageories.... do Jesuit Priests ever get assigned to a bishop and parish due to lack of regular priests ?

any insight or answers , suggestions would be appreciated.
Let's being with your last question first. If a man is going to be both a priest and a religious, it's going to take longer than if he's going to be a priest. If you want to be a priest, you enter a diocesan seminary. You being your studies where you last left off and continue on until you complete a Maser's Degree In Divinity or a Master of Arts in Theology. At most, it can take eight years.

If the Lord calls you to be a religious, you begin through several stages that a priest need not go through. They have different names in different communities, but they're all the same. I'm going to use the names that we use in my community.

Inquirer -- 6 to 12 months
Postulant -- 6 to 12 months
Novice -- 24 months
Student Friar -- five years to 10 years
Solemn profession

During that time, you're also going to school. In my community you must complete a BA in an academic area with a minor in philosophy. You must complete at least four years of theology at the graduate level and obtain either an M.Dvi or an M.A. You must complete a second Masters in Human Ecology. But you're doing while you're going through the stages that I'[v outlined above.

If we look at those stages, let's take the minimum number of years that one must spend in formation before making solemn vows. That would be 8 years. The truth is that no one ever completes his formation to the religious life in 8 years. It always takes longer. Eight year sis the minimum, but not the norm.

If God calls one of us to be a priest, ordination to the diaconate cannot take place until religious formation has been completed. That means that the person must be in solemn vows. In addition, the person must be in his 4th year of theology.

Let'ssay that you have completed your formation in 8 years, in the 9th year you would be ordained a deacon. If you're still a student, you will finish the degree. In your 10th year, you do an internship as a deacon in one of our missions. You would be ordained a priest in your 11th year after beginning the journey as an inquirer. That would be least number of years that it would take to be ordained a priest and remember, I said that no one ever finishes in the leas amount of time, for many reasons that would take a book to write.

As far as poverty, the Jesuits are Clerks Regular. They are religious in solemn vows, but they are neither friars nor monks. They manage the vow of poverty differently. Because they are in solemn vows, no one can own anything. Before you make solemn vows, you must assign all of your assets to another person. You must give up any claims to future inheritances, say from your parents if they pass or a life insurance policy. All of that has to be signed away and it is legally binding. Even if you leave, you can never recover that.

As to smaller things, it is up to the superior to decide what smaller items you can keep in your possession. But don't let the word possession deceive you. These smaller items, such as laptop computer, a cell phone, or CDs are in your possession, but you do not possess them, even if you brought them from home. How does this work? It means that if you have to move from one house to another and those items are needed in the house that you're leaving, guess what? You can't take them with you to the next house. The superior has the right to tell you to leave them. I'll give you an example.

I recently moved a brother from one house to another. He had many good theology books. When I wrote the letter of obedience, I indicated that the books in his possession had to remain behind. Why? He was leaving the house of formation and going to a mission house. It makes no sense to take books out of the house of formation, which are needed there only to have to buy them again.

The best way that I can explain poverty for a Jesuit is "I need" vs "I want." You will always have what you need for your health, work, education and development. There are no guarantees that you will always have what you want.

You can always join my community in which you will not have what you want nor will you have many things that you need either, because we only allow ourselves to have what the very poor have. For example, we don't have medical insurance or retirement insurance. If we get sick, we use the state system just like the rest of the poor. That would not be the case with clerks regular, such as Jesuits. They will have medical insurance.

I hope this helps many people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV
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  #39  
Old Jun 13, '12, 6:35 am
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choliks choliks is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john78 View Post
I have been doing some research on the Jesuits from the website posted in this thread, which lead me to the Louisiana section and in turn reading further on i found that it takes around 12-15 years to become a Jesuit Priest...
The duration depends on what you finished in your undergraduate studies. For example, if you majored in Philosophy, then a few credits units might be shaved off from the curriculum of your formation.

Here's the breakdown:
Novitiate - 2 years
Juniorate - 1 year
Scholastic (philosophy) 2-3 years
Regency - 2-3 years
Scholastic (theology) - 4-5 years + Diaconate (6 months)


Quote:
some where in the process one becomes a deacon ( the title of which i do not recall )
If you're going to be ordained a Jesuit priest, this usually happens 6 months before the presbyterate (priesthood).

Quote:
while one is going through this 15 year process, and moving through the ranks, what becomes their mission in the mean time ? at some point school ends, and one graduates, does one remain a deacon at a parish, or are they sent on different missions ?
Before a Jesuit scholastic could transition to the 4 year theology studies from philosophy, he will take a 2 year regency. It means he will go out into the world, doing work in mission areas such as schools, leper colonies, etc. Once the superior has discerned that the he is ready for theology studies, then he can proceed.

After the ordination, the new Jesuit priest will receive his mission orders. Some are assigned to parishes. Some are sent to minister in mission areas. Some take further studies in certain fields. I have a Jesuit friend assigned to minister to prisoners in a correctional facility.

Quote:
That and they take a vow of poverty, I " have things " but barely at that, i have access to the internet, a large dvd collection, a paid for vehicle which i didnt souly pay for just partially, some other nick nacks from over the years, and i enjoy art and am fairly good at it and have supplies from photograph equipment to drawing/painting items.

I have never had such a stable job that i accumulated a large amount of money to live off of or be considered rich... I dont own high tech things such as ipads, cellphones, game platforms.

so how poor is this life of poverty ? I have probably had the same clothes for over 2 yrs i loath shopping for clothes hence why i keep what i wear for as long as i can.
Bro. JR explained the life of poverty very eloquently. But if I might add... a Jesuit can use any means necessary for his mission. If he needs a mobile phone and a laptop for his work, then the Society will provide for those needs. But he can never claim it as his own. It's the Society's.

Quote:
and Why does it take 12-15 yrs to become a Jesuit Priest versus a regular priest/ parish priest.
Bro. JR has answered this clearly.

Quote:
and I was looking at the numbers of Jesuits roughly close to 17 thousand, broken down into different catageories.... do Jesuit Priests ever get assigned to a bishop and parish due to lack of regular priests ?
A Jesuit priest may be assigned to a parish but not necessarily due to lack of regular priests.
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  #40  
Old Jun 13, '12, 4:53 pm
Alan55 Alan55 is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

What you do during Jesuit formation depends a great deal on (1) your educational level before joining and (2) your likely ministry after you are ordained. Most Jesuits these days enter after college, so they already have bachelors degrees and some have advanced degrees: M.Div, Ph.D., J.D., M.D., etc. If you don't yet have a college degree, you'll do that after you join. Those who are going to teach in Jesuit colleges and universities get advanced degrees (Ph.D.) after joining, if they don't already have one. All Jesuits (except brothers) do a couple of years of philosophy (unless they've already done philosophy) and four years of theology (M.Div. + additional Licentiate year). They are commonly ordained after the third year of theology.

A very common pattern for those who enter with bachelors degrees but who aren't going on for a Ph.D. is to do two years of philosophy, teach in a high school for three years, then go on to theology. If you get it in your head that your ministry during formation is to be a student, then you're ok, and three years of ministry in teaching or some other work help. Most are eager to be ordained and move on to full-time ministry, but since so many Jesuits are involved in education, the years of study make sense, and you're surrounded by people who are doing the same thing.
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  #41  
Old Jun 13, '12, 5:13 pm
Alan55 Alan55 is offline
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Default Re: Jesuits?

There are a series of videos on Youtube that chronicle the life of a young man who decided to become a Jesuit and what Jesuit formation and ministry was like for him. You might want to check it out. The first of those videos is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty2pd...feature=relmfu
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