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  #1  
Old Nov 29, '10, 6:49 pm
cjcapta cjcapta is offline
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Question Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

Full Knowledge and Full Consent are two of the three requirements for a sin to be a mortal sin. But I had a question on determining whether you had full knowledge and/or full consent. If you know that you could be more certain that something is a sin or if you know that you could have had more consent over whether something is a sin, does that mean it is not a mortal sin?
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  #2  
Old Nov 29, '10, 8:14 pm
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JRKH JRKH is offline
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Default Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

How close to the fire do you want to dance?
How close to the precipice do you wish to get?

This question is splitting hairs to no good purpose. Avoid Grave sin - avoid sin period and you won't need to worry about such things.

Dance as far away from the fire as possible
Run from the precipice

Don't look down into the abyss but up to the promise of the beatific vision.

Now - to try to seriously answer your question. If a person is seriousl asking such questions then they have enough certainty and enough control of their actions for the commission to be a mortal sin.
In fact, in my view, if a person is contemplating a grave action with sufficiant forethought to consider these matters then they may have already sinned in their mind.

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Old Nov 29, '10, 8:34 pm
JerryS JerryS is offline
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Default Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

If you're trying to tell whether some action you are contemplating is mortally or venially sinful, then it doesn't matter. It offends God. Don't do it.

If you're trying to tell whether some action you've done is mortally or venially sinful for confession, just confess it and be done with it. It's not worth the worry.

If you're trying to decide whether to receive the Eucharist between now and your next confession you have 2 options. If you believe it isn't mortal, go ahead and receive. In that case, you might confess that you did not judge the sin mortal, but may have received the sacrament unworthily if you were mistaken. If you believe it may have been mortal, then don't receive out of respect for the Lord until you can confess it.
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Old Nov 29, '10, 8:37 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcapta View Post
Full Knowledge and Full Consent are two of the three requirements for a sin to be a mortal sin. But I had a question on determining whether you had full knowledge and/or full consent. If you know that you could be more certain that something is a sin or if you know that you could have had more consent over whether something is a sin, does that mean it is not a mortal sin?
no.

Full knowledge and complete consent does not mean one has to have the most knowledge or the most consent possible....

Just full knowledge and complete consent. See the CCC.
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Old Nov 29, '10, 8:53 pm
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

Now...this may help though.

The classic stages of temptation when we are tempted are:

1. Suggestion (the evil is proposed to us in some way) this can be quite attractive ...can be thoughts that happen, ideas etc.

2. Pleasure (a kind of automatic pleasure can happen from the suggestion) this pleasure can just happen...one is not "trying to have it" not wanting it...this is just a reaction.

3....then one either consents or does not consent.

(one can either consent fully and thus engage in things willingly ...or not consent and perhaps thus grow in virtue...following Christ!)

Now it can often happen that one begins to "partially consent" but then rejects it and thus does not give full consent.

When one is tempted...

Some signs that one lacked consent or gave only "partial consent":

If even though there was some instinctive pleasure ...we do not want it...we are unhappy or horrified about the evil...or struggle to not be overcome ...we turn to God in Prayer --these are some signs of no consent (if of course we stay in this stage...and do not later consent)

(For example some thoughts come out of the blue just cause one happened to see an attractive person...and one does not want the thoughts but turns to God in Prayer or is horrified by them and turns to something else etc...no matter how much they come back...if one does not consent at all...there is no sin...but rather possibly growth in virtues)

If one hesitates for a moment but then does not want to sin and so rejects it and does not give full consent (thus a fault against prudence)

If one resists but the resistance is half hearted....one does resist but it is weak or slow...but in the end one rejects it..such would seem to be half consent and thus venial

Of course if one then gives in and gives full consent...then such can be mortal...remember...partial consent or half consent is not full consent...and thus not mortal.


(Based on A Tanquery.. he bases things on S. Augustine..but much of this is simply repeated in various places...for it is the basics in judging such)
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Old Nov 29, '10, 9:10 pm
cjcapta cjcapta is offline
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Unhappy Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryS View Post
If you're trying to tell whether some action you are contemplating is mortally or venially sinful, then it doesn't matter. It offends God. Don't do it.

If you're trying to tell whether some action you've done is mortally or venially sinful for confession, just confess it and be done with it. It's not worth the worry.

If you're trying to decide whether to receive the Eucharist between now and your next confession you have 2 options. If you believe it isn't mortal, go ahead and receive. In that case, you might confess that you did not judge the sin mortal, but may have received the sacrament unworthily if you were mistaken. If you believe it may have been mortal, then don't receive out of respect for the Lord until you can confess it.
I have scrupulosity though, and one of the ten commandments for the scrupulous (if you haven't heard of it, I can give you the link) is to not confess sins you are doubtful of having committed and if I recall correctly, I asked on this forum if that also meant whether you were doubtful whether a sin was mortal or venial and I got a response that said it did mean that.
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Old Nov 30, '10, 6:21 am
Bookcat Bookcat is offline
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Default Re: Full Knowledge and Full Consent question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjcapta View Post
I have scrupulosity though, and one of the ten commandments for the scrupulous (if you haven't heard of it, I can give you the link) is to not confess sins you are doubtful of having committed and if I recall correctly, I asked on this forum if that also meant whether you were doubtful whether a sin was mortal or venial and I got a response that said it did mean that.
A person with scrupulosity or with various degrees of scruples ought to have a regular confessor. Your confessor can direct you as to how you are to subjectively judge things in your regards. He can give you particular principles to assist you.

For a person with this difficulty is often in a somewhat different boat. They often can mistake their fear for conscience ...or one can say fear tends to interfere with their conscience. It can be to varying degrees and subjects but basically they tend to have difficulties "with doubt" with knowing ...with doubting where they need not doubt. Faults can become venial sins...and venial sins can look like mortal...due to the fears!! So often a person with scrupulosity is given particular principles or directions which can be followed by them...(but which are not to be "universalized" to all Christians..)...to help them.


Scruples are to be treated like a barking dog or a hissing goose. One does not stop and argue with a hissing goose or a barking dog does one? No...one keeps walking. When scruples arise...turn to God and let them pass by.

*the last bit is borrowed from Carthusian from the 15th century

Of course always steer by the Teachings of the Church...(but do not scruple!)

Ones confessor can help one determine what is scruple and what is not.

Put your Faith in Jesus of Nazareth! He loves you.

In him is true hope! True life.
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