Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Jun 12, '12, 8:12 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Hi, My Muslim friend said why use such poor language to show love after I told him:

I think the "heaping of coals" comes by way of overcoming evil with good so to help our enemies become aware of their shameful evil behaviors in order that they may come to a place of Godly sorrow that leads them repentance. So this is a statement of love for our enemy.

Why do they use this language? Thank you!

"Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore

If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
If he is thirsty, give him a drink;
For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.(Romans 12:17-21)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Jun 12, '12, 8:59 am
mymamamary's Avatar
mymamamary mymamamary is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2011
Posts: 2,261
Religion: Catholic,Traditionalist,Latin,Eastern Rites and proud of it!
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

i think it is respectful and sometimes true, in the Hungarian language (im hungarian btw but ive been raised in Canada, im 16 ) it is almost the exact same but translated it would sound like: For in doing so, you will throw ashes on his head. Very true at times, and guilt would drive to repentance, which would lead them to conversion, which if lived effectivley would lead them to Heaven. Which is what I hope we want for everyone!!!
__________________
MOST SACRED HEART OF JESUS, I GIVE THEE MY HEART, PERMIT ME TO LOVE THEE FOREVER!!
Seminarian studying for the Sacred Priesthood of JESUS CHRIST in the Archdiocese of Detroit
Adore TE DEVOTE, Laetens DEITAS!!

J.M.J
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Jun 12, '12, 9:32 am
COPLAND 3's Avatar
COPLAND 3 COPLAND 3 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2008
Posts: 3,226
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Its just an expression of metaphor, and that expression was probably common in those days, and if im correct, its an Old Testament expression. All languages and all cultures have their own expressions that are common to themselves. An 80's term i remember is someone being bad to the bone. I can only imagine how that sounds to someone who's not accustomed to that kind of language!
__________________
Check out Litteral's Christian Library Publications
http://www.lclpub.com/home.html
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Jun 12, '12, 9:56 am
SonCatcher SonCatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2010
Posts: 6,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

St. Paul is quoting Proverbs 25:21-22



The NAB footnote on the proverb:
A memorable statement of humanity and moderation; such sentiments could be occasionally found even outside the Bible, e.g., “It is better to bless someone than to do harm to one who has insulted you” (Egyptian Papyrus Insinger). Cf. Ex 23:4 and Lv 19:17–18. Human beings should not take it upon themselves to exact vengeance, leaving it rather in God’s hands. This saying has in view an enemy’s vulnerability in time of need, in this case extreme hunger and thirst; such a need should not be an occasion for revenge. The motive for restraining oneself is to allow God’s justice to take its own course, as in 20:22 and 24:17–19. Live coals: either remorse and embarrassment for the harm done, or increased punishment for refusing reconciliation. Cf. Mt 5:44. Rom 12:20 cites the Greek version and interprets it, “Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good.”
Haydock's note on the proverb:
Coals of charity; (St. Chrysostom in Romans xii. 20.) or, if he prove obstinate, his punishment will be the greater. (Geier.) --- The former sense is more received. (Calmet)
I think the "greater punishment" refers to in Hell.

Haydock's note on Romans 12:20:
Thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. This figurative way of speaking is differently expounded. Some say, inasmuch as by this means thou shalt make him liable to greater punishments from God. Others, as St. Jerome and St. Augustine, by coals of fire, understand kindnesses and benefits, which shall touch the heart, and inflame the affections even of thy enemies, which shall make them sorry for what they have done, and become thy friends. (Witham)
Regardless of how it is interpreted, the instruction is clear:
If someone who has previously insulted, hated and even physically attacked us finds himself in need later on, we must help him.
__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Jun 12, '12, 10:02 am
St Francis St Francis is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2004
Posts: 11,396
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
__________________


"The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love."
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P



Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Jun 12, '12, 10:11 am
christofirst christofirst is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2009
Posts: 1,220
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Francis View Post
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
I like that way of seeing it. I had not thought of it that way before. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Jun 12, '12, 7:11 pm
feed me feed me is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2012
Posts: 395
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it's like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Jun 13, '12, 10:54 am
SonCatcher SonCatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2010
Posts: 6,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by feed me View Post
Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it's like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
Nope. However, since evil is depravity of good (even perhaps of common sense), I wouldn't be surprised if there were someone who expected such a thing.
__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:20 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonCatcher View Post
St. Paul is quoting Proverbs 25:21-22



The NAB footnote on the proverb:
A memorable statement of humanity and moderation; such sentiments could be occasionally found even outside the Bible, e.g., “It is better to bless someone than to do harm to one who has insulted you” (Egyptian Papyrus Insinger). Cf. Ex 23:4 and Lv 19:17–18. Human beings should not take it upon themselves to exact vengeance, leaving it rather in God’s hands. This saying has in view an enemy’s vulnerability in time of need, in this case extreme hunger and thirst; such a need should not be an occasion for revenge. The motive for restraining oneself is to allow God’s justice to take its own course, as in 20:22 and 24:17–19. Live coals: either remorse and embarrassment for the harm done, or increased punishment for refusing reconciliation. Cf. Mt 5:44. Rom 12:20 cites the Greek version and interprets it, “Do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good.”
Haydock's note on the proverb:
Coals of charity; (St. Chrysostom in Romans xii. 20.) or, if he prove obstinate, his punishment will be the greater. (Geier.) --- The former sense is more received. (Calmet)
I think the "greater punishment" refers to in Hell.

Haydock's note on Romans 12:20:
Thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. This figurative way of speaking is differently expounded. Some say, inasmuch as by this means thou shalt make him liable to greater punishments from God. Others, as St. Jerome and St. Augustine, by coals of fire, understand kindnesses and benefits, which shall touch the heart, and inflame the affections even of thy enemies, which shall make them sorry for what they have done, and become thy friends. (Witham)
Regardless of how it is interpreted, the instruction is clear:
If someone who has previously insulted, hated and even physically attacked us finds himself in need later on, we must help him.
Well said, thank you very much! Where did you get the quotes? Do you have a LOGOS Catholic software or something?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:28 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by feed me View Post
Yes, but unfortunity there are too many people who see repayment of good for evil, and will take advantage of that for there own evil, and will just keep doing evil because you keep doing good and it's like a reward for them to keep doing evil. Does that make any sence?
There are people who do these things for various reasons; some or psychologically / spiritually ill, other may be just lazy and or greedy, etc. But like one person commented, God will judge them, perhaps even more severely? If we aren't aware of our sins, then we might not be as culpable and judged as such. But that doesn't mean we should not spread the Good News of the Gospel.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:34 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Francis View Post
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:36 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by COPLAND 3 View Post
Its just an expression of metaphor, and that expression was probably common in those days, and if im correct, its an Old Testament expression. All languages and all cultures have their own expressions that are common to themselves. An 80's term i remember is someone being bad to the bone. I can only imagine how that sounds to someone who's not accustomed to that kind of language!
but BAD TO THE BONE, still means BAD right? Not Good? I think I get what your saying though, some people say your bad, and mean your good.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:37 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mymamamary View Post
i think it is respectful and sometimes true, in the Hungarian language (im hungarian btw but ive been raised in Canada, im 16 ) it is almost the exact same but translated it would sound like: For in doing so, you will throw ashes on his head. Very true at times, and guilt would drive to repentance, which would lead them to conversion, which if lived effectivley would lead them to Heaven. Which is what I hope we want for everyone!!!
Awesome, 16! You are in a great place spiritually it seems. May God Bless You and keep you strong ever growing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks for the comment.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old Jun 14, '12, 3:45 am
GodHeals GodHeals is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2012
Posts: 602
Religion: Catholic Revert
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Francis View Post
There is an analogy of the spiritual life which says sometimes is like a quick flame that soon dies out, or like embers of a fire which burn for a long time. They may have used the coals to show that there would be a long-term effect, not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.
not just a quick effect which could possibly be produced by a sharp angry reaction.

You mean instead of showing love, a person gets angry at their enemy which would produce in the enemy a quick effect that does no good?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old Jun 14, '12, 10:09 am
SonCatcher SonCatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2010
Posts: 6,033
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” - why use this language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodHeals View Post
Well said, thank you very much! Where did you get the quotes? Do you have a LOGOS Catholic software or something?
erm... copy/paste from the USCCB and Haydock sites.

__________________
-John
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8459Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Kellyreneeomara
5147CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: 77stanthony77
4424Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: DesertSister62
4037OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: eschator83
3863SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3740Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: DesertSister62
3322Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3284Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3224Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3112For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Kellyreneeomara



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:07 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.