Catholic FAQ


Help support Catholic Answers!

Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #46  
Old Aug 22, '13, 4:26 pm
Ridgerunner Ridgerunner is offline
Forum Elder
 
Join Date: September 10, 2006
Posts: 22,147
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

I haven't read the book, and am very unlikely to ever do so.

But from what I have read in this thread and the articles attached to the posts, I fail to see where there's anything new or original about this book. I have seen all this stuff presented by various people before; some of them Jewish critics, some of them self-proclaimed "Christian scholars", some of them just plain dissidents.

From what I have seen, Aslan seems to have read a lot of those more obscure texts and incorporated a bunch of their arguments into what he then made into a best-seller.

And OF COURSE the mainstream media would praise it. They don't want to believe in Jesus, or in God for that matter. They're making a best seller out of what sounds to me like a totally derivative work.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old Aug 23, '13, 9:02 am
Michael Mayo's Avatar
Michael Mayo Michael Mayo is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2012
Posts: 1,755
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

I think a good example is found in Acts 21:21

20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed; they are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.

There was already agreement that gentile Christians did not need to observe Jewish laws but Jews who bacame Christians were a different story. James, Peter, and John (the Pillars of the Church) were still observing Jewiss law and customs as were many others.

Paul's letters speak for themselves about how Paul feels about the law and his reference to "super Apostles" relates to others Jewish Christians telling the Corinthians they still need to follow jewish law.

1Corinthians 11:5
I think that I am not in the least inferior to these superlative apostles.


.2 Corinthians 12:11
[ Paul’s Concern for the Corinthian Church ] I have been a fool! You forced me to it, for I ought to have been commended by you. For I am not at all inferior to these superlative apostles, even though I am nothing.

.
__________________


“Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love,
yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you.
I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”.
- Pope Francis

Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old Aug 23, '13, 2:32 pm
steve53 steve53 is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2010
Posts: 712
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner View Post
I haven't read the book, and am very unlikely to ever do so.

But from what I have read in this thread and the articles attached to the posts, I fail to see where there's anything new or original about this book. I have seen all this stuff presented by various people before; some of them Jewish critics, some of them self-proclaimed "Christian scholars", some of them just plain dissidents.

From what I have seen, Aslan seems to have read a lot of those more obscure texts and incorporated a bunch of their arguments into what he then made into a best-seller.

And OF COURSE the mainstream media would praise it. They don't want to believe in Jesus, or in God for that matter. They're making a best seller out of what sounds to me like a totally derivative work.
Reza lives in Hollywood and is a script-writer, so his book could easily have have been "commissioned" by PR people who knew that a book on Jesus by a supposed Muslim would sell and they could book talk shows easily and everyone would make money.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old Aug 24, '13, 4:47 am
_Abyssinia _Abyssinia is offline
Senior Member
Prayer Warrior
 
Join Date: May 20, 2011
Posts: 15,563
Religion: Catholic. Gender: Female
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

What should you know about the new book "Zealot"?

A Usually Happy Fellow Reviews Aslan’s Zealot – Le Donne

Zealot or Messiah: A New Controversy

Controversial book's claims about Jesus are 'nothing new'

Reza Aslan Tells an Old Story about Jesus

A Response to Zealot by Reza Aslan
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old Aug 24, '13, 7:19 am
Michael Mayo's Avatar
Michael Mayo Michael Mayo is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2012
Posts: 1,755
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

So much fuss over this book? Even the author admits much influence from John P. Meier author of "A Marginal Jew" publiched in 1991. And Jesus Seminar guys befor that.
__________________


“Lord, I have let myself be deceived; in a thousand ways I have shunned your love,
yet here I am once more, to renew my covenant with you.
I need you. Save me once again, Lord, take me once more into your redeeming embrace”.
- Pope Francis

Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old Aug 24, '13, 8:15 pm
patrick457 patrick457 is offline
Forum Master
 
Join Date: September 7, 2006
Posts: 12,784
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Reza Aslan's new book on Jesus as a zealot. where are the Catholic-Christian rebuttals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornbread_r2 View Post
I agree that that's not the best of arguments.

For myself it comes down to these incongruities:

If Jesus was tried and executed for seditious acts, then why were his known followers not only allowed to live, but also allowed to openly recruit thousands of new recruits -- in Jesus's name -- just weeks after his execution?

If Jesus was just a common rabble-rouser, then why was he tried and executed like a seditionist, instead of being summarily executed by the closest Roman soldier at hand like other common rabble-rousers?

IMO, the role of the Romans in the Gospels seems more like plot device than historical fact.
Because He's just "a common rabble-rouser." One of the reasons I think that He wasn't just stabbed by a soldier in the open is the same reason why the chief priests hesitated to arrest Him in the open: it might escalate into a full-blown riot. Passover especially is that time of year when Jerusalem is crowded with pilgrims.

I think we need a review here of just how Roman government worked. Judaea was a province ruled by a prefect (or after AD 41, a procurator), who commanded auxiliaries recruited from peregrini, local non-citizens - 3,000 of them. Being an equestrian, the prefect was not of high rank enough to command a legion; his immediate superior, the legate of Syria, meanwhile, commanded four. The prefect and the majority of his soldiers stayed in the capital of Caesarea Maritima for most of the year, far away from the sight of Jews. In addition to the cohorts settled in Caesarea, there was a garrison in a fort next to the temple (the Antonia), but its soldiers seldom had police duties. A few other very small garrisons were established in existing forts in other parts of the country, but these too had no regular police duties.

As mentioned, Jerusalem was a center of pilgrimage, and pilgrimage was a very popular activity in the ancient world. Three times a year, the population of Jerusalem suddenly swelled about tenfold as pilgrims and tourists came from every corner of the known world to celebrate the three pilgrimage festivals - Passover, Shavuot (Pentecost), and Sukkoth (Booths). Then and only then did the prefect bring more troops to the city as precaution against any potential trouble. On these occasions, they did assume some police duties, which were concentrated on the largest assembly point in Palestine, the temple courts.

During the forty-five or so weeks of each year that the Romans were not in Jerusalem, who was responsible for local government? It fell under the lot of the high priest, assisted by an advisory council composed of other aristocrats, many of whom were also priests. Police duties were the responsibility of the high priest's guards.

This system was simply a reversion to the one followed during the Persian and Hellenistic periods, before the Maccabean (Hasmonean) revolt - which introduced a system where the high priest would also be the 'king'. For over 400 years, from the late 6th or early 5th century BC to 37 BC, when Herod conquered Jerusalem, the Jews in Palestine had been governed by a priestly aristocracy. We tend to be more familiar with Israel being a monarchy since the Old Testament contains many more books that reflect the period of the monarchy than the subsequent period, when priests ruled Jerusalem and Judea under a remote and usually non-interfering empire. About as many years had passed under high priestly rule as under monarchical rule, and the priestly years were very recent. Many Jews during the 1st century preferred oligarchy to monarchy, since kings tended to become dictators. Many Palestinian Jews disliked both of the two recent royal families, the Hasmoneans and the Herodians. Most of the high priests had been more collegial rulers than Herod and Archelaus, and most Jews also knew that the priests would interfere with even fewer aspects of their culture than had the Herods. Consequently, a lot of Jews preferred the 'new' arrangement in Jerusalem and Judaea.

How did this form of government work? First, the aristocrats had to get along well with the prefect or procurator. They needed his backing when there was trouble, and they could not cross him in any way. They served as mediators between prefect and people, presenting the behavior of the populace to the prefect in a good light. On the other hand, they also had to keep the masses from offending Rome too much. If Roman soldiers and Jewish crowds came together and blood was spilled, the aristocrats failed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8021Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: Roddy1234
4815CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4283Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: Christine85
4027OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: fencersmother
3809SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3358Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3182Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3144Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
2957For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: libralion
2677Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:11 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2013, Catholic Answers.