Making a big mistake after my "second conversion" - How do I recover? :(

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Originally Posted by LSK

I have no idea what the above poster means when he or she states that maybe the man was raped too because he was also drinking. If he was being coerced into do something sexual, then yes...he would be the victim of a sexual assault or (possibly) a rape. If, however, he was doing the PRESSURING then he was NOT a victim of either one.

The fact that a man may think about sex all the time is absolutely NO excuse for immoral or sinful behavior. Males are children of God, created in His Image and should be held to a standard that requires them to behave as such and not given a wink or a nod when they do not. If they are horribly subject to sin, as St Paul described himself, then they have an obligation to keep their eyes and hands to themselves and their minds lifted in prayer, just as women have an obligation to dress and behave with modesty and love of God firmly in their minds.

In the US, with variations from state to state, if a person is drunk or drugged they cannot give consent for sexual activity. Period. If we do not like that we can work within the system to change the law but right now, as it stands, anyone who is drunk or drugged - whether they got drunk or got high on their own volition or not - cannot give consent for sexual activity and that elevates the situation to a criminal offense. If someone engages in a criminal activity is also drunk or drugged they may have an affirmative defense however they are still in danger of being charged with sexual assault or rape.

I think it is absolutely fabulous that this young woman has taken responsibility for drinking too much that night. Most people would not do so; however, she is NOT responsible for this young man's immorality. He could have behaved like a child of God. He chose not to and for that he should be held accountable.

The two boys I raised have been raised with this standard. They are firmly aware that if they end up in this situation I will love them but I will expect them to accept full responsibility for acting like immoral bores.

But what do I know?

Of course that I was trying to convey serious things in a funny matter.
After all, maybe it was not so funny...
I was not seriously saying that the boy was raped, only that in a very, very, very vague manner he was completely drunk MAYBE and was attracted to her and that was rape. Of course this is so, so, so much out of reality that I hope it may sound incredible.....

Just to say, when you have alcohol in the blood, assuming responsibilities for acts is difficult, nothing more.

In NO WAY AT ALL I was trying to put guilt into the lady's hands, no way.

Repeating, just to say that to avoid alcohol is the best in parties for whatever happens is outside your control.

In Mediterranean countries, it is the parents who teach teens how to drink, wine, slowly, with food and never with an empty stomach and so on.

Now, parties are not the best way to learn how to drink.

Sorry if my post mislead someone.

[LSK]

Apology accepted. It is difficult to understand tone of voice when posting online. My experience has been that rape and/or sexual assault is not a subject of humor. Too many young men in the US have found themselves on the receiving end of a criminal charge because they thought it would be ok to force themselves on a woman (or another man) if they are BOTH drunk, that somehow imbibing in alcohol which lower the inhibitions makes being 'persuasive' ok. And too many young women (and men) have made the bad decision to drink too much at a party and then felt somehow they were responsible for another person's immoral behavior.

I agree we need to teach our young how to be responsible when it comes to alcohol.

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Originally Posted by LSK

Apology accepted. It is difficult to understand tone of voice when posting online. My experience has been that rape and/or sexual assault is not a subject of humor. Too many young men in the US have found themselves on the receiving end of a criminal charge because they thought it would be ok to force themselves on a woman (or another man) if they are BOTH drunk, that somehow imbibing in alcohol which lower the inhibitions makes being 'persuasive' ok. And too many young women (and men) have made the bad decision to drink too much at a party and then felt somehow they were responsible for another person's immoral behavior.

I agree we need to teach our young how to be responsible when it comes to alcohol.

In literature, humor on hard things like sex and death is called euphemism. You say things in a light way, not necessarily to joke about it, because things are hard.

What I was trying to convey is that, like in assault, where most of the time it is the woman that is killed or hurt, we cannot see the women as the good ones and men the bad ones.

The question is complex and it would lead far away, so I will not go further for it needed a deep and complex reflection.

[Apologista]

I would add only one more bit of advice to what others have already said - make sure you have a group of good Catholic friends to hang out with. This friend who had the birthday, if you have a deep and trusting friendship, can you clue her in as to what happened with this wolf? If she's a decent person, she should think twice about inviting him to her next party - if it's not you he will pick another target. Also, it would be prudent for there to be people who are "designated" to stay sober and not let things get out of hand if possible - this would cut down on potential legal problems arising.

And if she gets defensive with you for mentioning these implications, maybe it's time to spend less time with her.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by stina2bina

Something's completely eating me up, and I'm not sure how to approach it at all. For context: I am a 21 year old college student at an incredibly secular school. I was raised Catholic and go to Mass every Sunday. About 2 years ago, I got out of an emotionally abusive relationship. To increase my self-esteem, I turned to sinful behaviour, mainly casually dating/kissing non-Catholic men and being more intimate than I should with them (I was one of those "Well, as long as we're not having sex..." types). About 3 months ago, I had what I believe to be a second conversion. I decided I felt used, hurt and that it was time to respect myself the way God intended me to be respected. I realized that the things of this world are not what will properly fill that void.

So for the past few months, I went to confession for the first time in 2 years, I spent a bunch of time with a Catholic group at my college, completely gave up binge drinking and masturbation, and overall things were looking great! I was telling all my friends (Catholic and non) that I was ready to live out my values properly and was pumped to do so. I was even asked to speak at a Catholic event and am supposed to lead a Bible study in a few weeks.

Well a few nights ago, it all unravelled. It was a friend's birthday, I had a couple glasses of wine, and this guy who I know was interested in me, kept re-filling my glass (occasionally when I wasn't looking) and I got drunk. He then proceeded to take advantage of me, pressuring me into things. I tried resisting but he kept pushing and eventually, I guess because I was drunk and technically had done this before, I fell back into my old sinful behaviour. I know he was wrong for taking advantage of me, but it was my fault for getting that drunk in the first place. I woke up the next morning confused and unbelievably embarrassed. I thought I had changed and now I'm concerned I'm a hopeless cause

I am now heartbroken because I'm concerned my second conversion wasn't "real". I have several friends who decided enough was enough and are now leaders in the Catholic community and they never made big mistakes like this afterwards. Maybe I was just kidding myself thinking I had "changed". I am also concerned because I've realized I want a good Catholic husband one day and I'm worried none will want someone like me, who has such a past, and has sinned so badly even after claiming a second conversion. I feel like a fraud.

Does anyone have any advice for me? Any prayers you think would help? I will obviously go to confession soon, but what other steps can I take to turn around so I won't keep "changing", only to sin again.

Please keep me in your prayers!

Bad habits are really hard to break even when nobody else knows about them, but when you've gotten yourself a reputation, and people are out there wanting to take advantage of you, it's even more difficult.

1. Don't believe anybody who claims they broke a seriously bad habit on the first try. Nobody has ever done that. It takes time and tears and lots of getting up out of the dust, lots of trips to the Confessional, and lots and lots and lots of humility to say, "I'm not perfect. I'm not even close. But I'm giving it my best try."

2. Don't beat yourself up about something you can't change. The only reason to revisit the situation is to figure out what went wrong, and create a strategy to avoid the same thing happening again.

3. Something different will happen the next time - and again, don't beat yourself up, but just keep refining your strategy until you get there. The only failure is to give up trying. It takes time, and you will fall from time to time, but don't give up on yourself. You're worth the effort; just keep on believing that.

4. Don't let anyone talk you into doing something you don't want to do. You can say, "I am sometimes that kind of girl, but today I don't want to be. Today, at this moment, I am chaste. Today, at this moment, I am sober."

5. When your mother told you to eat and drink what is set before you, she was talking about the beautiful supper that she made for you - not the drinks that someone keeps pouring for you. You are allowed to look at this wine glass that can't seem to get empty and say, "You know what? I've had enough." and you can throw it down the sink in the kitchen., and wash and put the glass away. I have thrown out glasses of wine and liquor, or left them on the table, and nobody ever said anything to me - I would just say, "I seem to have taken more than I really wanted," and people were fine with it.

[stina2bina]

Again, thank you for all the insights everyone!

Just to address a few of the additional comments, and to provide a bit of an update, I confided in 3 of my friends (one of which had been violently raped before) every detail about what had happened that night. Again, I in no way want to point fingers and avoid responsibility from the mistakes I made in the situation, but it was the first time I've been intimate with a guy where I can say he couldn't care less about me as a person. I felt guilty, but a lot of aspects of that night seemed so wrong and dark to me, so I thought I should talk to someone.

They ALL think there isn't a question about it, and I was sexually assaulted, which again, I'm still hesitant to say for various reasons. They say this based on several things, mainly that one overheard they guy say to a friend that I was his "target for the night" (at which point I hadn't had anything to drink, so they assumed nothing would happen), the fact that he (apparently, I found out later), was 100% SOBER, and the fact that when, I told him at least 3-4 times not to do something, and he forced himself unto me and did it anyway.

One of the friends I talked things out with was the host of the party, and she was just about ready to kill the guy, and started to think of ways to either report him, or at least have a very stern talk with him. As I mentioned, apparently he was completely SOBER and had planned on trying to take advantage of me the whole night. I had to calm her down a bit, but rest assured, she's a good friend.

So for the past few days I've found myself in an annoying situation mentally, because I've got pamphlets/friends telling me that it's important for me to understand that "It was not my fault", yet my Catholic conscience that understands that I must take responsibility for whatever I did poorly in the situation. It hurts my brain a bit, trying to sort out responsibility, not gonna lie This whole situtation has taken a large toll on me mentally and emotionally :P

My grandma passed away this past week, so I've been travelling home and haven't had a chance to go to confession, but I think I will this week. And from now on I'm limiting myself to a 2-drink maximum Again, thank you for the help everyone!

[stina2bina]

Originally Posted by LSK

I have no idea what the above poster means when he or she states that maybe the man was raped too because he was also drinking. If he was being coerced into do something sexual, then yes...he would be the victim of a sexual assault or (possibly) a rape. If, however, he was doing the PRESSURING then he was NOT a victim of either one.

The fact that a man may think about sex all the time is absolutely NO excuse for immoral or sinful behavior. Males are children of God, created in His Image and should be held to a standard that requires them to behave as such and not given a wink or a nod when they do not. If they are horribly subject to sin, as St Paul described himself, then they have an obligation to keep their eyes and hands to themselves and their minds lifted in prayer, just as women have an obligation to dress and behave with modesty and love of God firmly in their minds.

In the US, with variations from state to state, if a person is drunk or drugged they cannot give consent for sexual activity. Period. If we do not like that we can work within the system to change the law but right now, as it stands, anyone who is drunk or drugged - whether they got drunk or got high on their own volition or not - cannot give consent for sexual activity and that elevates the situation to a criminal offense. If someone engages in a criminal activity is also drunk or drugged they may have an affirmative defense however they are still in danger of being charged with sexual assault or rape.

I think it is absolutely fabulous that this young woman has taken responsibility for drinking too much that night. Most people would not do so; however, she is NOT responsible for this young man's immorality. He could have behaved like a child of God. He chose not to and for that he should be held accountable.

The two boys I raised have been raised with this standard. They are firmly aware that if they end up in this situation I will love them but I will expect them to accept full responsibility for acting like immoral bores.

But what do I know?

And I want to add a special thank you to you, LSK All your comments have been incredibly supportive and encouraging, and I hope you realize how much I've appreciated them.

[eknight]

Stina, something very similar happened with me (my borderline devastation is what lead me to your post). I want to thank you for your honesty and everyone else here for their answers, because this thread has been very beneficial to me. I can now dust myself and get back up from my stumble.

(I found a nearby parish where my Confession can be heard tomorrow, and I look forward to it immensely. What a precious gift the Sacrament is!)

Thanks again, and God bless you all.

[TheRealJuliane]

Originally Posted by eknight

Stina, something very similar happened with me (my borderline devastation is what lead me to your post). I want to thank you for your honesty and everyone else here for their answers, because this thread has been very beneficial to me. I can now dust myself and get back up from my stumble.

(I found a nearby parish where my Confession can be heard tomorrow, and I look forward to it immensely. What a precious gift the Sacrament is!)

Thanks again, and God bless you all.

God bless you! I am glad you are going to confession today. It is indeed, a wonderful blessing.

[Rose71]

The very fact that you have brought your worries here shows you are serious about your faith. Everyone messes up sometimes: just read the Gospels and you will find St. Peter denying Jesus 3 times; St. Paul behaving rather badly before his conversion...

Put what happened at that party right behind you. You have learned a valuable lesson and it sounds as though you have a good bunch of supportive friends. You were immature and insecure and you met an equally immature and insecure young man - and there was alcohol involved!

So what does it all mean? It means you've fallen - but had the grace and courage to get up and to examine your own conscience and resolve to keep trying. That's a sign you are on your way to real wisdom and maturaity one heck of a lot faster than the idiot who got you drunk!

It also means, one day, you'll be a fantastic mother because you will remember what it was like to be young and uncertain and subjected to peer pressure - but you'll know that with prayers and loving friends, you made it through

[3DOCTORS]

If you made a series of lesser errors/misjudgments, it is still 100% the responsibility of the cad in question for the actions he did to you. He's a predator.

Praying for you to have peace and healing. Take care.