How do you "admonish a sinner" without sounding judgmental?

[OraLabora]

Originally Posted by ForwardProgress

Just tell them to come to CAF Moral Theo...they will be admonished!



I am a believer that you admonish those you are very close to, like your children...not other friends and associates..

We are all on a spiritual journey...we are all not in the same place in that journey..some are at the beginning, and some are ideal Catholics...

Best bet is to pray that they learn the truth.

I tried that admonish the sinner thing with my own wife, who was on birth control. I nearly lost my marriage. I should have just prayed for her instead. I would NOT reccomend this.

I agree. I would add that some who appear to be ideal Catholics are often using strict observance of the rules to hide a very deep problem, wound or disordered temptation. At some point they have a meltdown because they can no longer keep the lid on the boiling pot. It takes that meltdown to finally face the issue and start down the path of true transformation and healing.

We are all sinners, and all greatly in need of His mercy. Unless we're clergy or correcting our children I think it behooves us to work on our own sins before correcting others, especially on what are intimate and deeply personal issues.

We should also keep in mind that if we handle it in a ham-fisted manner and drive the couple further away from Christ then it is WE who will held to account on judgement day.

[Thomas Doubter]

I'n sorry but this is not and either or this this is now the law within the Church..You will admonish sinners.Its an edict, done deal.. I am asking how to do with some grace.: :I also would like to understand what the point exactly is.I was initially astonished But .I was distinctly Pope'd in this conversation.and i had thought it a bit early to play the infallibility card.especially when asking about the condition or implication and,or the condition of its application. rather than questioning it's actually legitimacy

"“Being concerned for each other” also entails being concerned for their spiritual well-being. Here I would like to mention an aspect of the Christian life, which I believe has been quite forgotten: fraternal correction in view of eternal salvation. Today, in general, we are very sensitive to the idea of charity and caring about the physical and material well-being of others, but almost completely silent about our spiritual responsibility towards our brothers and sisters. This was not the case in the early Church or in those communities that are truly mature in faith, those which are concerned not only for the physical health of their brothers and sisters, but also for their spiritual health and ultimate destiny. The Scriptures tell us: “Rebuke the wise and he will love you for it. Be open with the wise, he grows wiser still, teach the upright, he will gain yet more” (Prov 9:8ff). Christ himself commands us to admonish a brother who is committing a sin (cf. Mt 18:15). The verb used to express fraternal correction - elenchein – is the same used to indicate the prophetic mission of Christians to speak out against a generation indulging in evil (cf. Eph 5:11). The Church’s tradition has included “admonishing sinners” among the spiritual works of mercy. It is important to recover this dimension of Christian charity. We must not remain silent before evil. I am thinking of all those Christians who, out of human regard or purely personal convenience, adapt to the prevailing mentality, rather than warning their brothers and sisters against ways of thinking and acting that are contrary to the truth and that do not follow the path of goodness. Christian admonishment, for its part, is never motivated by a spirit of accusation or recrimination. It is always moved by love and mercy, and springs from genuine concern for the good of the other. As the Apostle Paul says: “If one of you is caught doing something wrong, those of you who are spiritual should set that person right in a spirit of gentleness; and watch yourselves that you are not put to the test in the same way” (Gal 6:1). In a world pervaded by individualism, it is essential to rediscover the importance of fraternal correction, so that together we may journey towards holiness. Scripture tells us that even “the upright falls seven times” (Prov 24:16); all of us are weak and imperfect (cf. 1 Jn 1:8). It is a great service, then, to help others and allow them to help us, so that we can be open to the whole truth about ourselves, improve our lives and walk more uprightly in the Lord’s ways. There will always be a need for a gaze which loves and admonishes, which knows and understands, which discerns and forgives (cf. Lk 22:61), as God has done and continues to do with each of us."

--Pope Benedict XVI from message for Lent 2012

[mgoforth]

Originally Posted by OraLabora

I agree. I would add that some who appear to be ideal Catholics are often using strict observance of the rules to hide a very deep problem, wound or disordered temptation.

Umm...I'm sure that's true of some, but what does that really prove. What about the saints? Are you saying they were all psychopathic liars who were faking their dedication to "the rules"?

We are all sinners, and all greatly in need of His mercy. Unless we're clergy or correcting our children I think it behooves us to work on our own sins before correcting others, especially on what are intimate and deeply personal issues.

But at what point have we corrected our own sins enough that we can begin to help others? Obviously this is not a straightforward answer, but I get the feeling that many modern Catholics would say "never". Yes, of course we're all sinners. So are the priests and all parents. If we can point out that our brothers and sisters are making a mistake with charity, then we should do so...it's an obligation.

We should also keep in mind that if we handle it in a ham-fisted manner and drive the couple further away from Christ then it is WE who will held to account on judgement day.

Possibly, but that depends on a lot of things. We have no guarantee that we won't handle it in a "ham-fisted manner" even if we've prepared the most elegant and charitable speech in the world. Doesn't mean we need a guarantee of success before we try.

The key word is love. Love your brothers and sisters enough to warn them of the spiritual cliff they're about to walk over.

[Thomas Doubter]

To warn someone is common sense to admonish someone is to criticise them morally.This new instruction from Pope Benedict is the Law not a want to but a must admonish.
The devil is in the detail as the usual bromides ( eg:"judge not lest ye be judged") do not work..This is question of Papal authority and not conscience..But if How cannot be answered with an instruction or instructions how will this informed message of the Holy spirit be implemented..Or maybe one should not appeal to reason,. but Motive.

[pigzig]

Here's a tip I suggest everyone use, attack the item rather than the person and avoid direct commands. For example instead of
"You're bad for masturbating, you shouldn't do it" say "masturbating is bad, do you really want to do it?"

[Thomas Doubter]

This is a tautology and not a real answer,

[BobCatholic]

Who says that being judgmental is a bad thing?

If someone tells you "Being judgmental is wrong", ask them "I'm confused. How do you know if someone is judgmental." The answer, of course, is they are judging them as such.
Therefore they are being judgmental, and doing something "wrong"

[Thomas Doubter]

On an ordinary basis its inevitable it just means your wrong, or your right but to judge a person as a sinner is to say I know you spiritual mistake why you as a proof of Gods love is not evident in your life.An unforgiven sinner- It is the total thing that concerns a criticism of another to the condition of a soul that the Lord said "Judge not lest ye be Judged" Besides I don't care much about the judgement. Damn yourself if you will.Tthat is your choice Bob. But traditionally that is usually the province of a a priest presumably cut out to do this Job. That's why this It:'s important- when the laity is asked to judge spirituality.

On a different note Bob I may think your a bit of a troglodyte and hope you are not a lay teacher at a Catholic school but that is my opinion of you based on your reply not any serious judgement that might have me admonish you.

[Non sum dignus]

I would recommend phrasing everything in terms of spiritual damage to your friend.

[EvelynEVF]

Originally Posted by Thomas Doubter

I know you spiritual mistake why you as a proof of Gods love is not evident in your life.

I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole, and I sincerely hope I am misunderstanding you! One of the people who admonished me told me that I was handicapping God in my life by not remaining with an abusive husband. He didn't know diddly squat about God's love in my life, only what he chose to see.

I still believe that even if you *know* there is sin, you still don't get to admonish anybody about it unless you're willing to put a shoulder under their cross.

[Thomas Doubter]

This Question is about a Papal edict: a radical Change in the way things are done. I would let it slide but it is so ultra conservative that it should concern us all. It is not wether its right or but what is the Doctrine that the Catetecism that evolves from this Doctrine will teach us what to do as Catholics,In this thread as one of my replies is a comprehensive quote from the Holy Fathers edict.

Are we to police each other.We do battle in a world of transitions"I have Faith but I could do with some hope Has the Chuch abandoned Ecumenism - Peace to people of good will? as it is in the Mass. I know I am not alone in this..I do not see hope in this or where this will go.

When liars steal the truth,?" How do you admonish a sinner without sounding judgmental,This is a central Question

"what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?"Mathew 7