How to discipline first big lie? - Page 2

Mary Gail 36 · #16 May 22, '12, 12:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

Yes, I am referring to the "Satanic worship" cases. The children were being led into saying what they did, and the prevailing belief that children don't lie about abuse meant that no matter what the adults said or did in other own defense, it was ignored because "Children don't lie."

Your own case shows a small example of it. Children can pick up on our cues even if they aren't as blatant as your aunt's reaction.

And of course children can lie.

When DS was I guess about 4, he wrote his name on grandma's wall in nice block letters. "J, did you do this?" "No."

TheRealJuliane · #17 May 22, '12, 12:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36

When DS was I guess about 4, he wrote his name on grandma's wall in nice block letters. "J, did you do this?" "No."

You should have said, "What nice writing! What did you use to write it with?" "This marker!" BUSTED....

Luna Lovecraft · #18 May 22, '12, 1:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Gail 36

When DS was I guess about 4, he wrote his name on grandma's wall in nice block letters. "J, did you do this?" "No."

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

You should have said, "What nice writing! What did you use to write it with?" "This marker!" BUSTED....

When the girls were four the eldest cut 2/3rd of her sister's hair off. My fault. I left them playing and by the time I realized they's been a little too quiet for too long the damage was done.

When I walked in they were busy pushing the hair under the bed. Because, you know, adults would never notice a child is missing most of her hair if they could just hide the evidence in time.

When I asked (edited: screamed) who'd cut the hair they simultaneously pointed at each other and said, "She did it!" The culprit had the temerity to still be holding the kiddie scissors she used.

I wish I were making this up, but we had an appointment the very next morning for pictures. We did the best we could coif-wise, but we ended up with pictures featuring one girl with cute hair and one girl who looked as if she'd had her hair cut by a one-armed barber in prison.

Luna

Luna

shainski · #19 May 22, '12, 2:18 pm

With my seven year old, we have emphasized that he really doesn't want to lie to us because he really doesn't want to have us not trust him.

If we stop trusting him, then we will have to verify everything that he tells us.

We have caught him in minor lies. He generally will fail the test when i say to him, "I want you to look directly into my eyes and tell me what you just said. And I want to tell you right now that if you lie, this will be the consequence. You may get into trouble for having done this, but you will be in far bigger trouble for lying about it."

So far, that seems to work. With his personality, he doesn't want to lose our trust.

TheRealJuliane · #20 May 22, '12, 3:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna Lovecraft

When the girls were four the eldest cut 2/3rd of her sister's hair off. My fault. I left them playing and by the time I realized they's been a little too quiet for too long the damage was done.

When I walked in they were busy pushing the hair under the bed. Because, you know, adults would never notice a child is missing most of her hair if they could just hide the evidence in time.

When I asked (edited: screamed) who'd cut the hair they simultaneously pointed at each other and said, "She did it!" The culprit had the temerity to still be holding the kiddie scissors she used.

I wish I were making this up, but we had an appointment the very next morning for pictures. We did the best we could coif-wise, but we ended up with pictures featuring one girl with cute hair and one girl who looked as if she'd had her hair cut by a one-armed barber in prison.

Luna

Luna

No, you're right, you can't make stuff like that up! Hahahaha! Kids and scissors, a traditionally bad combo...

I actually got fired from a babysitting job once because the older boy went down to a friend's house and somehow burned the front of his hair off playing with matches (I didn't know about this because he was still at the friend's house by the time the parents came home and I left for the day). Now, I had been at their house watching the baby sister, who was about 2, and I tried to explain that this did not happen under my watch, but at the friend's house, but the parents still fired me. I was very upset that they had not given me the benefit of the doubt but reacted against an innocent party. And I had really bonded with their little girl, and mourned when I couldn't see her again..

Pfaffenhoffen · #21 May 22, '12, 11:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

What the heck??? OF COURSE children lie!!!

They do it all the time! We are fallen people and we all have original sin. Children make up fantasies from when they are little, and about the OP's son's age, they can lie and know that they are lying, and know that it's wrong to lie, yet still choose to do it.

No, they do not lie.
They say their way of seeing things and for a reason.
Please stop that guy! He wont break the wall and he will get hurt!

Pfaffenhoffen · #22 May 22, '12, 11:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeritasLuxMea

In regards to contrition, you should definitely explain what consequences his action(s) could have had. Sometimes children can't be remorseful if they don't understand why what they did was wrong. (Not saying that's the case here, necessarily.... but possible.)

So do adults.

For some reason we don't punish them.

You're funny!
After all, children have a right to remain silent and all they say may be used against them !!!

Pfaffenhoffen · #23 May 22, '12, 11:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

We don't have the responsibility to raise up adults to be adults, because they aren't under our jurisdiction. What a silly think to say, Veritas, not like you.

Pfaffenhoffen was actually positing that children cannot lie, that they are genetically unable to lie. Did you get that? That sort of mistaken belief of the inherent innocence of children has put adults into prison for long sentences, when no abuse had taken place, all because there was a mistaken belief that children always tell the truth.

STOP!
I did not say that children are inherently good. I am not Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
Look, if you punish a child for a lie, he will not tell the truth,ok? Wise move!
Study the stages of moral development of Kholberg, please. Children, when they are small, they think of bad and good as theings hurt or do not hurt them.
the wall is bad, because she banged the head against the wall. On the contrary, adults bang their heads against the wall on purpose like the ".gif" guy.
So, when the child tells a lie, she is saying, do not punish me. That is their logic. Nor ours, which is not pretty perfect either.

Pfaffenhoffen · #24 May 22, '12, 11:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJuliane

No, you're right, you can't make stuff like that up! Hahahaha! Kids and scissors, a traditionally bad combo...

I actually got fired from a babysitting job once because the older boy went down to a friend's house and somehow burned the front of his hair off playing with matches (I didn't know about this because he was still at the friend's house by the time the parents came home and I left for the day). Now, I had been at their house watching the baby sister, who was about 2, and I tried to explain that this did not happen under my watch, but at the friend's house, but the parents still fired me. I was very upset that they had not given me the benefit of the doubt but reacted against an innocent party. And I had really bonded with their little girl, and mourned when I couldn't see her again..

Those parents said to you: "you are a bad child care taker BUT we are perfect parents..."

Alicewyf · #25 May 23, '12, 5:48 am

I'm surprised very few have mentioned confession/ apologizing to Jesus. If our DD does something really bad (hitting, mainly) we have her kneel down at our family altar and apologize to Jesus. We tell her that certain things make Jesus sad and Mommy and Daddy sad. She is three. She doesn't know about hell yet so we aren't trying to scare her or anything. She also has other punishments as well but we do not spank.

msumissa · #26 May 29, '12, 9:37 am

When we catch lying we punish more severely. Usually they have to do lines in addition to the punishment for the crime. The lines are usually something I want them to become, hoping it will stick

Such as, ' I will be honest and trustworthy in my dealings with adults'

I also provide clemency for truth telling. When my children are honest about a situation. I will provide the appropriate punishment and then, I will say, since you told me the truth (and I know it to be the truth) I am lowering your punishment to X.

Obviously this is a case by case basis.

My YDD is feeling the strain of loss of trust in that everyday for at least two weeks, she has to remove her shoes before we can leave school, because she was taking special stones out of the sandbox... she is feeling the pain of loss of trust and the embarrassment that comes with it.

gus · #27 Jun 5, '12, 12:38 pm

This week on DR. Ray EWTN show he addressed this very problem with a role play example.
You offer your child the choice between two punishments of varing severity. The lesser punishment is applied if they tell the truth the more severe if they continue in their lie.
This encourages the truth while enforcing consequences for
an inapropriate action