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  #31  
Old Jun 28, '12, 9:12 pm
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curlycool89 curlycool89 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by justme View Post
But I do not give that one may publicly disagree on doctrine as one may on theological issues (for instance limbo is a theological issue).
Sorry, I meant that but didn't specify that part. You can't publicly disagree on doctrine and therefore cause scandal.
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  #32  
Old Jun 29, '12, 7:37 am
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
There is something I do not understand. In business the best and hardest deals are done by the two decision makers in a room making a deal. Boards, committees, lawyers they just all complicate matters. And while all those things are needed, it really just comes down to two men. So why is this not the case here? Why dont the Pope and Fellay meet, hash it out and be done with it. The Pope lays out a document, Fellay asks if words can be changed, they discuss why or why not and make a decision. Why has this not happened?
There is a problem with the analogy of businesses talking to each other.

The SSPX is a religious institution. Bp Fellay is the head of that institution but he is most likely limited in what he may do by the constitutions of the institution. The leaders of religious institutions do not have a free hand in doing whatever they want. Their powers are constrained by the constitutions, statutes, and rules involved with that institution.

It may very well take a general chapter of the SSPX to conclude any sort of "reunion" with the Church.

Last edited by Friar David, O.Carm; Jun 29, '12 at 7:50 am.
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  #33  
Old Jun 29, '12, 8:32 am
Moore11 Moore11 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by Friar David, O.Carm View Post
There is a problem with the analogy of businesses talking to each other.

The SSPX is a religious institution. Bp Fellay is the head of that institution but he is most likely limited in what he may do by the constitutions of the institution. The leaders of religious institutions do not have a free hand in doing whatever they want. Their powers are constrained by the constitutions, statutes, and rules involved with that institution.

It may very well take a general chapter of the SSPX to conclude any sort of "reunion" with the Church.
That makes sense. But what I dont understand is that he had "authority" to sign earlier and signed with changes to the document. Why would he not have authority to sign now. It seems as if a general chapter was needed we would know that from previous meetings.
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  #34  
Old Jun 29, '12, 9:17 am
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by Moore11 View Post
That makes sense. But what I dont understand is that he had "authority" to sign earlier and signed with changes to the document. Why would he not have authority to sign now. It seems as if a general chapter was needed we would know that from previous meetings.
We do not know that he had authority to sign on his own before. There was a lag time between when he received the first document and he returned it (modified) signed.

But that first document was not any sort of "reunification".

We do not know what is needed and the SSPX has no need to tell us what is needed.
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  #35  
Old Jun 29, '12, 11:02 am
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TrueLight TrueLight is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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The continuation of arrogance if true.
Yeah. Okay.

Hope is not yet lost. DiNoia was recently appointed and it may be that he may be able to mediate an acceptable preamble.
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  #36  
Old Jun 29, '12, 11:57 am
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Yeah. Okay.

Hope is not yet lost. DiNoia was recently appointed and it may be that he may be able to mediate an acceptable preamble.
I believe that we are past the preamble phase.
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  #37  
Old Jun 29, '12, 10:39 pm
Taitofli Taitofli is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

I say again, if true that Bp. Fellay has said he can not sign the document, then i say YES again, a slap in the face for Pope Benedict XVI and his offer for reconciliation, or for a better wording, a welcome back.

If the cardinals changed anything, we do not know. One can assume after all the vatileaks but this has also happened with the SSPX and their leaks. Truly, some faction does not want unity in the church and prefer living divided.

I say again, the Pope got a lot of resistence of issuing the Sumoriam Pontifica, i think that is how you spell it, and also lifting the ex-comummion on these 4 bishops when in he just could left it as it was. The Pope wants unity, and it sounds that what SSPX want is THERE WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. The Pope gave them what they wanted.

Bp Fellay, he must say what he will do, although it seems that that has already been decided.
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  #38  
Old Jun 30, '12, 7:46 pm
jam070406 jam070406 is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by Taitofli View Post
I say again, if true that Bp. Fellay has said he can not sign the document, then i say YES again, a slap in the face for Pope Benedict XVI and his offer for reconciliation, or for a better wording, a welcome back.

If the cardinals changed anything, we do not know. One can assume after all the vatileaks but this has also happened with the SSPX and their leaks. Truly, some faction does not want unity in the church and prefer living divided.

I say again, the Pope got a lot of resistence of issuing the Sumoriam Pontifica, i think that is how you spell it, and also lifting the ex-comummion on these 4 bishops when in he just could left it as it was. The Pope wants unity, and it sounds that what SSPX want is THERE WAY OR THE HIGHWAY. The Pope gave them what they wanted.

Bp Fellay, he must say what he will do, although it seems that that has already been decided.
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  #39  
Old Jun 30, '12, 9:34 pm
ringil ringil is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by TrueLight View Post
Yeah. Okay.

Hope is not yet lost. DiNoia was recently appointed and it may be that he may be able to mediate an acceptable preamble.
Don't you think this is getting a little old though?

The Pope has been incredibly patient with these guys. I am saying INCREDIBLY!

Their behavior through this has been such an insult to legitimate authority.
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  #40  
Old Jun 30, '12, 10:47 pm
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YoungTradCath YoungTradCath is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

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Originally Posted by ringil View Post
Don't you think this is getting a little old though?

The Pope has been incredibly patient with these guys. I am saying INCREDIBLY!

Their behavior through this has been such an insult to legitimate authority.
The whispers going round now are that the Pope actually accepted the Preamble as modified by Bishop Fellay, but when the bishop went back to Rome, he was handed the same Preamble as before. That's a head scratcher. Meaning that someone ignored the Pope's acceptance and just went back to square one. However, rumors are rumors and we don't know anything yet.
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  #41  
Old Jul 1, '12, 10:07 am
Taitofli Taitofli is offline
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Default Re: SSPX rejects Vatican's latest offer [CNAU]

With the new appointed bishop to help unity with the SSPX can demostrate many things:

- rumores are true of the power struggle.

- some groups do not want SSPX back in full communion with the Catholic Church and visaversa.

- I quote the question of the article that a member left under my quote: Why did'n Bp Fellay say no on the spot.

Like i said before, not all what is leaked is true. There are factions on both side that do not want unity and the leader of all is Satan himself using these groups to maintain the division.

Pray much to have unity!!!
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