Where does the Church believe non-christians will go in the after life? - Page 6

PJM · #76 Jun 5, '12, 7:44 am

Quote:

=wcknight;9370355]I must be extremely dense and missing the point,,, what else matters ?

IF I really love God above all else, I listen to His word, follow His commandments, including the dictates of His Church. (BTW, loving our neighbors, could also been seen as a subset of that). It seems to me to be all inclusive. What else is outside of that ??

How about Baptism [John 3:5]

No Mortal sins unconfessed and unforgiven [John 20-23]

Keeping the Commandments {Mt. 19:17]

Grace: Tit.2: 11 “For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men”

Faith: Rom.1: 16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”

Christian Baptism: John 3:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

FULL- Obedience: [17] “…. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."… John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” … 2 Thess. 1: 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might” ….. Mt.7: 21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Heb.13:17 “Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you [THIS MEANS THE POPE AND THE CC] … Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”…Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." MT. 28:16-20 “Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them."

God Bless,
Pat

wcknight · #77 Jun 5, '12, 1:50 pm

I think ALL of that falls under loving God. AT least to me it does.

aragonjohn1 · #78 Jun 6, '12, 8:47 am

As far as I know God is the judge.

And according to the catechism " those outside of the faith can be saved if they have willful or unknowing ignorance of God And (or?) good works"

Shalom

donship · #79 Jun 7, '12, 6:09 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by aragonjohn1

As far as I know God is the judge.

And according to the catechism " those outside of the faith can be saved if they have willful or unknowing ignorance of God And (or?) good works"

Shalom

When reading this line in the catechism, I personally and totally agree with the "unknowing" part. I do, however, do not understand the "willful" part ???

I hope you understand that I am a sinner and believe I need full repentance and Reconciliation to achieve salvation, as I was taught by the CC, as a young boy (I am now 57 yrs old). I just have a problem with understanding how an atheist can live a life of willfully disregarding the Lord, living a life of willful bad intent and never desiring or feeling as though they will need salvation.

I apologize for my ignorance on understanding this part. I DO believe all should be saved by the Lord's Grace, but I also can see that in this fallen world, one could use it as an excuse, and we should understand the potential danger of relating this to someone (esp. the youth), and feeling as though they will be saved anyway???

Any help to allow me to better understand this and resolve the confusion I have as stated above is truly appreciated.

Thank you and May the Good Lord Bless You, now and forever.

Gratefully Yours,

Don

aragonjohn1 · #80 Jun 8, '12, 2:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by donship

When reading this line in the catechism, I personally and totally agree with the "unknowing" part. I do, however, do not understand the "willful" part ???

I hope you understand that I am a sinner and believe I need full repentance and Reconciliation to achieve salvation, as I was taught by the CC, as a young boy (I am now 57 yrs old). I just have a problem with understanding how an atheist can live a life of willfully disregarding the Lord, living a life of willful bad intent and never desiring or feeling as though they will need salvation.

I apologize for my ignorance on understanding this part. I DO believe all should be saved by the Lord's Grace, but I also can see that in this fallen world, one could use it as an excuse, and we should understand the potential danger of relating this to someone (esp. the youth), and feeling as though they will be saved anyway???

Any help to allow me to better understand this and resolve the confusion I have as stated above is truly appreciated.

Thank you and May the Good Lord Bless You, now and forever.

Gratefully Yours,

Don

baptism of desire -- this desire for Baptism can be implicit or explicit. A non-Christian of any religion, or even an agnostic or atheist, can obtain such a baptism by implicitly desiring the state of grace given by Baptism, which is essentially the state of continually loving God and neighbor. This love of God can also be implicit, allowing even an atheist to be saved.

Shalom : )

God bless

John