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  #1  
Old Mar 2, '06, 8:19 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
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Default Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

The Imani Temple in Washington was founded by schismatic priest George Stallings in 1989. The following year he was excommunicated by the Catholic Church. A few months later, he was ordained bishop by several Old Catholic bishops. The DC Imani Temple, together with at least three other parishes he established, now form the self-proclaimed "African American Catholic Congregation."

Although they by and large hew to traditional Catholic teaching, they have also played a bit fast and loose with some traditional rules - they have ordained female clergy, the now Archbishop of the Americas Stallings in 2001 married a Japanese wife in a mass-wedding ceremony blessed by Unification Church Rev Sun-Myung Moon, and they discourage infant baptism.

Regarding scripture and tradition, things are also a bit sketchy...
Quote:
Everyone in the Old Testament was African and no white person appears until mention is made of the Roman occupation.
They also do not recognize any Ecumenical Councils after the first eight. Their translations of the Creeds are in need of some retouching.
Quote:
He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Mother-Father.
Nonetheless, there does appear to be apostolic succession through the Old Catholic bishops. Are the Imani Temple sacraments valid?
  #2  
Old Mar 2, '06, 8:51 pm
brotherhrolf brotherhrolf is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

I can't answer whether or not their sacraments are valid. I can, however, tell you that south Louisiana has, if not the highest, then one of the highest numbers of African American Catholic populations in the US and that the Imani temples went over like a lead balloon here. I'm not even certain their churches are operational. If they are, they certainly did not make any inroads.
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  #3  
Old Mar 2, '06, 10:10 pm
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy
The Imani Temple in Washington was founded by schismatic priest George Stallings in 1989. The following year he was excommunicated by the Catholic Church. A few months later, he was ordained bishop by several Old Catholic bishops. The DC Imani Temple, together with at least three other parishes he established, now form the self-proclaimed "African American Catholic Congregation."

Although they by and large hew to traditional Catholic teaching, they have also played a bit fast and loose with some traditional rules - they have ordained female clergy, the now Archbishop of the Americas Stallings in 2001 married a Japanese wife in a mass-wedding ceremony blessed by Unification Church Rev Sun-Myung Moon, and they discourage infant baptism.

Female clergy is the problem, if not now, then later. Women cannot be validly ordained. Therefore, if a female "bishop" "ordains" another "bishop", it breaks the apostolic chain.

Hmmm. "Holy Qur'an" eh.
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  #4  
Old Mar 2, '06, 10:41 pm
Brain Brain is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

At least the sacraments the bishop does are valid (though SEVERLY and GRAVELY illicit) so long as matter form and intent are satisfied. I somehow doubt that he is ordaining with proper form, just a hunch, but if he is oberving form matter and proper intent, yeah its valid.

of course he isnt married
and those women arent priests
and the bishop is crazy
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  #5  
Old Mar 3, '06, 12:31 am
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy
The Imani Temple in Washington was founded by schismatic priest George Stallings in 1989. The following year he was excommunicated by the Catholic Church. A few months later, he was ordained bishop by several Old Catholic bishops. The DC Imani Temple, together with at least three other parishes he established, now form the self-proclaimed "African American Catholic Congregation."

Although they by and large hew to traditional Catholic teaching, they have also played a bit fast and loose with some traditional rules - they have ordained female clergy, the now Archbishop of the Americas Stallings in 2001 married a Japanese wife in a mass-wedding ceremony blessed by Unification Church Rev Sun-Myung Moon, and they discourage infant baptism.

Regarding scripture and tradition, things are also a bit sketchy...
They also do not recognize any Ecumenical Councils after the first eight. Their translations of the Creeds are in need of some retouching.
Nonetheless, there does appear to be apostolic succession through the Old Catholic bishops. Are the Imani Temple sacraments valid?

They are a 100% schismatic group. They totally reject the authority of Rome. As near as I can tell they in no way shape or form have apostolic succession and they preach and adhere to heretical beliefs. You can put them at least one rung lower than the SSPX. Stay as far away as possible..
  #6  
Old Mar 3, '06, 1:23 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain
but if he is oberving form matter and proper intent, yeah its valid.
That was what I was guessing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain
of course he isnt married
Why not? Of the various sacraments under consideration here, I would have thought that would be the most likely to be valid.
  #7  
Old Mar 3, '06, 1:35 pm
GoLatin GoLatin is offline
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Smile Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy
That was what I was guessing.
Why not? Of the various sacraments under consideration here, I would have thought that would be the most likely to be valid.
I think that Brain means that since Stallings is a validly ordained Priest, he cannot validly marry without laicisation and permission from Church authority.
  #8  
Old Mar 3, '06, 1:41 pm
hilde the dog hilde the dog is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

I walk by his church frequently its about six blocks from my office. Its a beautiful old church to bad its crumbling and rotting...maybe thats the lesson.
  #9  
Old Mar 3, '06, 1:51 pm
Digitonomy Digitonomy is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLatin
I think that Brain means that since Stallings is a validly ordained Priest, he cannot validly marry without laicisation and permission from Church authority.
I was not aware of that. I thought he could exercise his free will to break his solemn vows to God and the Church, much as he did when he established the Imani Temple, and when he was ordained bishop. I assumed that his ordained status was simply an obstacle to the marriage being licit, rather than affecting the validity of matter.
  #10  
Old Mar 3, '06, 2:06 pm
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitonomy
I was not aware of that. I thought he could exercise his free will to break his solemn vows to God and the Church, much as he did when he established the Imani Temple, and when he was ordained bishop. I assumed that his ordained status was simply an obstacle to the marriage being licit, rather than affecting the validity of matter.
Marriage is a sacrament whose validity is closely tied to its liceity. A Catholic cannot validly marry outside the Church without permission. However, formal defection from Catholicism frees one from this rule, and I would consider getting ordained bishop in a schismatic sect sufficient to count as defection.
  #11  
Old Mar 3, '06, 5:12 pm
OutinChgoburbs OutinChgoburbs is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Did I read the passage from the link right, and they are baptizing the name of the Mother-Father?

"We believe that the Sacrament is to be celebrated according to the 'Rite of Baptism in the AACC' which includes immersion in water and in the name of the Mother-Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

http://www.imaniaacc.org/ofsacre_Baptis.htm

Wasn't there something in the past year or two about a Catholic priest in Australia who fiddled with the baptismal formula, and the result was that a bunch of children had to be baptized or conditionally baptized? Wouldn't that put a hole in the AACC's baptismal validity?
  #12  
Old Mar 8, '06, 5:02 am
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutinChgoburbs
Did I read the passage from the link right, and they are baptizing the name of the Mother-Father?

"We believe that the Sacrament is to be celebrated according to the 'Rite of Baptism in the AACC' which includes immersion in water and in the name of the Mother-Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

http://www.imaniaacc.org/ofsacre_Baptis.htm

Wasn't there something in the past year or two about a Catholic priest in Australia who fiddled with the baptismal formula, and the result was that a bunch of children had to be baptized or conditionally baptized? Wouldn't that put a hole in the AACC's baptismal validity?
It does. And because baptism is the gateway to all the other sacraments, everything else, including Holy Orders, is invalid.
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  #13  
Old Mar 8, '06, 6:45 am
jay29 jay29 is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

"To God, the Mother-Father, who is our Creator, to God, the Son, who is our Redeemer, to God, the Holy Spirit, who is our Sustainer -- Be Praise and glory, wisdom, thanksgiving and honor, power and might, forever and ever. AMEN "


I picked this up from there website. I never heard of "Mother-Father"
  #14  
Old Mar 9, '06, 12:57 am
Joe Monahan Joe Monahan is offline
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Arrow Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

See posts 103 and 104 in this thread for an explanation of the issues involved with apostolic succession and the dependent issues of validity in orders, episcopal and presbyteral.

Joe
  #15  
Old Jun 21, '09, 11:42 am
Archbishop Dan Archbishop Dan is offline
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Default Re: Does the Imani Temple have valid sacraments?

I would like to add to this post. Imani Temple is part of the old/independent Catholic church.The Old Catholic church dates back to the First Vatican Council in 1870 and How Rome Views The Old Catholic/ Independent Church is Valid and so Yes Imani Temple is a Valid Catholic church With Valid orders and with Valid Sacraments along with any other Old Catholic church.Please read below of what I have posted this comes from The Roman catholic Cannon and thus it is church law and many Roman catholic priest/Bishops do not want the laymember of the church to know this part of church law and what Pope John Paul II ratified and ordered and then there are some Roman Catholic Clergy who just dont know.But I can say this we Roman catholics/Old Catholic/independent catholics need to stop pointing and saying who is or is not catholic but we need to start being a true church and stop pointing and start teaching Gods word as well as doing Gods word .if any of you would like to email me about this please do also I invite all of you to stop by the National Old Catholic churches websites @ anytime @ www.thenationaloldcatholicchurch.org and or the-nationaloldcatholicchurch.org my email address is [email protected] g
and as always be blessed!
Dominus Iesus

At the Vatican on 16 June 2000, Pope John Paul II ratified and ordered the publication of Dominus Iesus. This Declaration of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was signed and published by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) in August of the same year.

In this Declaration, the Romanan Catholic Church recognizes the validity of Orders and Sacraments of Old Catholic denominations:

"The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the [Roman] Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches."

"Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such ... have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church." IV. Unicity and Unity of the Church, 17

Other Citations

Catholic Almanac - 1974

"The Roman Church recognizes the validity of Old Catholic Orders and other Sacraments." (Felician A. Roy, OFM, p. 368)

The Pastoral Companion – A Canon Law Handbook for Catholic Ministry – Third Edition by John M. Huels,J.C.D. page 335

“The principal condition is that these sacraments can be received only from validly ordained ministers. These are ministers who belong to “churches that have preserved the substance of the Eucharistic teaching, the sacraments of orders, and apostolic succession” This would include all Eastern non - Catholic churches, the Polish National Church, Old Catholic, and Old Roman Catholic.

Separated Brethren

"We have no reason to doubt that the Old Catholic Orders are valid. The Apostolic Succession does not depend on obedience to the See of Peter, but rather on the objective line of succession from Apostolic sources, the proper matter and form, and the proper intention ... likewise Old Catholic bishops are bishops in Apostolic Succession ... The Old Catholics, like the Orthodox, possess a valid priesthood." (William J. Whalan, pp. 204,248)

Rights and Responsibilities: A Catholic's Guide to the New Code of Canon Law

"Catholics may receive the Eucharist, penance, or anointing from sacred ministers of Catholic denominations whose Holy Orders are considered valid by the Romanan Catholic Church. This includes all Eastern Orthodox priests, as well as priests of the Old Catholic or Polish National Church." (Thomas P. Doyle, O.P., p. 44)
d Catholic/ Independent Church is as follows and is
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