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  #1  
Old Mar 4, '06, 11:15 am
naroad naroad is offline
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Default Nonpriests administering ashes

When did this practice become current? I went to an Ash Wednesday service and there was 2 priests, enough to handle the modest crowd. There were 6 "SIX" volunteers administering the ashes, this was not necessary. This modernist church is hell bent on turning us into protestants. I'm sick to death of priest handing over the reins when it is patently not necessary. I went out of my way to have the priest give me ashes. It's like a social activity for most of these people to be involved in handing out the Eucharist and administering ashes, it makes me puke. The whole leadership of the American Church should be strung up for what has happened the past 35 years.
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  #2  
Old Mar 4, '06, 2:26 pm
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by naroad
When did this practice become current? I went to an Ash Wednesday service and there was 2 priests, enough to handle the modest crowd. There were 6 "SIX" volunteers administering the ashes, this was not necessary. This modernist church is hell bent on turning us into protestants. I'm sick to death of priest handing over the reins when it is patently not necessary. I went out of my way to have the priest give me ashes. It's like a social activity for most of these people to be involved in handing out the Eucharist and administering ashes, it makes me puke. The whole leadership of the American Church should be strung up for what has happened the past 35 years.
The real question is why would a priest be required to administer ashes?


The Blessing is inheriant to the Ashes, not the the Minister.

It is no different than us using Holy Water to Bless our selves. We are not priests, but we, as lay people, use the blessed Sacramental to recieve the blessing the priest imparted to the water.

None of us would say that a priest is required to administer Holy Water, would we?


In the exact same way, a layperson can use ashes to impart the blessing of the priest.
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  #3  
Old Mar 4, '06, 3:11 pm
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

The 1975 Roman Missal has "The priest then places ashes on those who come forward, saying to each ...".

But in the Book of Blessings, there is an adaptation for the dicoeses of the USA.

"1659. This rite may be celebrated by a priest or deacon who may be assisted by lay ministers in the distribution of ashes. The blessing of the ashes, however, is reserved to a priest or deacon."

(Book of Blessings, Liturgical Press, ISBN 0-8146-1875-8, page 621)

My understanding is that this was approved by the Vatican on 27 January 1989. It is not part of the original 1984 De Benedictionibus, but an approved adaptation for the USA. On 19 March 1989 the president of the USA's National Conference of Catholic Bishops wrote that the Book of Blessings could be used from 1 October 1989. From 3 December 1989 its use was mandatory in the USA.

The rubrics of the 2002 Roman Missal describes the priest placing the ashes: "Deinde sacerdos imponit cineres omnibus astantibus, qui ad ipsum accedunt, dicens singulis: ...". (Missale Romanum, page 198). It could be argued that since this has been published more recently it should be followed, even in the USA.

Others could argue that the USA intends to get an approved adaptation to its translation of these rubrics.
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  #4  
Old Mar 4, '06, 3:16 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by naroad
When did this practice become current? I went to an Ash Wednesday service and there was 2 priests, enough to handle the modest crowd. There were 6 "SIX" volunteers administering the ashes, this was not necessary. This modernist church is hell bent on turning us into protestants. I'm sick to death of priest handing over the reins when it is patently not necessary. I went out of my way to have the priest give me ashes. It's like a social activity for most of these people to be involved in handing out the Eucharist and administering ashes, it makes me puke. The whole leadership of the American Church should be strung up for what has happened the past 35 years.

The Pastor should be the one doing this for his people and Lay people can assist the pastor when necessary because of the number of people.
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  #5  
Old Mar 4, '06, 3:23 pm
RichT RichT is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

I went to a care home on Ash wednesday and placed ashes on the heads of about 25 people. They would not have received their ashes had it not been for someone like me being available. It's a good thing the church allows lay people to be involved, otherwise folks like the ones mentioned above would be left without.
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  #6  
Old Mar 4, '06, 3:44 pm
jasm jasm is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

I received ashes from someone other than the priest also. I spent several days explaining to my 6 and 4 year old the significance of the ashes and what the priest says as he makes the sign of the Cross with them. Well, we were informed that children under the age of reason (7) would not be receiving ashes (due to the fact they are not knowingly able to commit a mortal sin and the ashes are for sinners) and making the sign of the cross with the ashes is NOT a blessing but a reminder. My son was a little disappointed, especially after my lectures. What do you all think about this?

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  #7  
Old Mar 4, '06, 6:48 pm
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendan
The real question is why would a priest be required to administer ashes?
The Blessing is inheriant to the Ashes, not the the Minister.
It is no different than us using Holy Water to Bless our selves. We are not priests, but we, as lay people, use the blessed Sacramental to recieve the blessing the priest imparted to the water.
None of us would say that a priest is required to administer Holy Water, would we?
In the exact same way, a layperson can use ashes to impart the blessing of the priest.
Actually the REAL reason is that a certain element within the Church wants to completely diminish the role of the ordained priesthood and elevate the laity so that there is no distinction between the two at all. I really believe that a they would probably be just as happy to see it gone altogether Then we could get back to what they consider true Christianity to be, small faith based communities, some run by women deacons, who do not need the ordained priesthood. As a popular quote from the seventies used to say," While true that Christ did not ordain any women, it is equally true that he did not ordain anyone at all."

This is an old idea, espoused by our good friend Martin Luther.. For those who don't know old brother Martin wanted not only ALL barriers between the ordained priesthood and the laity abolished but the ordained priesthood itself done away with. He saw such barriers as being detrimental to the development of Christianity as a whole and felt that all men should be equal in terms of religious duties and conviction. He generally felt that the Pope was the anti christ and his priests an abomination. In his work The Babylonian Captivity of the Church, Luther denied the authority of the priesthood to act as a mediator between man and God and further rejected the sacraments except as an aid to faith. In his Address to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation in 1520 he defined the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers. Religious services should not emphasize the sacrifice of Christ, but rather extol the redemption that the Mass diminished. The whispered prayers of the consecration and the practice of private masses were considered abominations in the eyes of God, and masses should always be communal in nature. Sound familiar?? It should.

Look at the direction the church is heading and I think you will definitely see the parallel. Slowly but surely, the inroads are being made. Luther's ideas are gaining more and more credence and the faith is suffering as a result. I'll bet old Martin is having a good long laugh at all of this.
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  #8  
Old Mar 4, '06, 6:52 pm
Hesychios Hesychios is offline
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Smile Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasm
I spent several days explaining to my 6 and 4 year old the significance of the ashes and what the priest says as he makes the sign of the Cross with them. Well, we were informed that children under the age of reason (7) would not be receiving ashes (due to the fact they are not knowingly able to commit a mortal sin and the ashes are for sinners) and making the sign of the cross with the ashes is NOT a blessing but a reminder. My son was a little disappointed, especially after my lectures. What do you all think about this?
The whole "age of reason" concept is disillusioning.

But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, "Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. "
Mark 10:14

Seven is an arbitrary age to make such a cutoff, some reach that point of reason early and some never reach it. The church needs to escape the "age of reason" mindset, it glorifies the human intellect and that is not the path to salvation.

"Truly truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
Mark 10:15

+T+
Michael
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  #9  
Old Mar 4, '06, 6:55 pm
otm otm is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmas85
Actually the REAL reason is that a certain element within the Church wants to completely diminish the role of the ordained priesthood and elevate the laity so that there is no distinction between the two at all.
Oh, hogwash. This is a sacramental. You are making this into something about a quater step below the Eucharist. It is simply a pious act to get us to think of our mortality and the fact that lay people can distribute them has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a diminishing of the priesthood. It has been approved by Rome. 'Nuf said.
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  #10  
Old Mar 4, '06, 6:55 pm
1moresoul 1moresoul is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

In my parish, everyone, including the youngest infant received ashes.

"When we receive ashes on our foreheads, we remember who we are. We remember that we are creatures of the earth ("Remember that you are dust"). We remember that we are mortal beings ("and to dust you will return"). We remember that we are baptized. We remember that we are people on a journey of conversion ("Turn away from sin and be faithful to the gospel"). We remember that we are members of the body of Christ (and that smudge on our foreheads will proclaim that identity to others, too)." http://www.americancatholic.org/News.../CU/ac0204.asp

Why would we want to deny any of this understanding to those who are just beginning on their journey?
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  #11  
Old Mar 4, '06, 6:59 pm
otm otm is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by naroad
This modernist church is hell bent on turning us into protestants.
Making us Protestant?!

For crying out loud, you need to learn a little more about the Protetants. for starters, this is considered to be highly Catholic, to the point where Protestant ministers who want to adopt the practice are getting themselves into trouble with their congregations for being "Catholic".

It is a sacramental. You should learn a bit more about what the Church actually teaches about sacrmentals.
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  #12  
Old Mar 4, '06, 7:02 pm
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by otm
Oh, hogwash. This is a sacramental. You are making this into something about a quater step below the Eucharist. It is simply a pious act to get us to think of our mortality and the fact that lay people can distribute them has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a diminishing of the priesthood. It has been approved by Rome. 'Nuf said.
A lot of things have been said by Rome, not all of them good or even conducive to Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

Actually I just see it as one more inroad being made in the de basement of the faith. You see I remember when we were told that Marian devotions were a thing of the past, when we were discouraged from having novenas and rosary processions in favor of bible study classes, thoughtfully provided by the local Protestant evangelicals. All motivated by a sincere desire to help us in a deeper understanding of the Christian faith.

Right, I know exactly what it was all about. You say Hogwash, fine. You are definitely entitled to your opinion. I support your right to say it.
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  #13  
Old Mar 4, '06, 7:05 pm
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Chatter163 Chatter163 is offline
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Lightbulb Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

The practice of laymen imposing ashes appeared pretty much at the same time EMHC's appeared.
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  #14  
Old Mar 4, '06, 7:07 pm
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatter163
The practice of laymen imposing ashes appeared pretty much at the same time EMHC's appeared.
Somehow that does not surprise me a bit.
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  #15  
Old Mar 5, '06, 6:51 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Nonpriests administering ashes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasm
I received ashes from someone other than the priest also. I spent several days explaining to my 6 and 4 year old the significance of the ashes and what the priest says as he makes the sign of the Cross with them. Well, we were informed that children under the age of reason (7) would not be receiving ashes (due to the fact they are not knowingly able to commit a mortal sin and the ashes are for sinners) and making the sign of the cross with the ashes is NOT a blessing but a reminder. My son was a little disappointed, especially after my lectures. What do you all think about this?

Well that is true a child under the "Age of Reason" has nothing to repent of. However I see no harm in receiving ashes as a sacramental they receive additional Actual Grace.
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