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  #1  
Old Mar 4, '06, 4:32 pm
PaulDupre PaulDupre is offline
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Default 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

My "health and wealth" Evangelical co-worker informed me that I would not need spinal surgery if I had real faith in Christ. He explained that the 39 lashes inflicted upon Jesus correspond to "the 39 known categories of disease", and then quoted Isaiah 53:5 "...by his stripes we are healed."

Therefore, he reasoned, any disease or health problem is the result of sin and lack of faith. I did not point out to him that he walks with a pronounced limp.

Where did this idea of 39 types of disease come from? I have found many Evangelical/Fundamentalist sites that state this idea, but they never say where it comes from.
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  #2  
Old Mar 4, '06, 4:48 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

I think your friend is "judging by the flesh" and not looking to the spiritual meaning.

Our sins our forgiven, which is why we are healed.

Notworthy
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  #3  
Old Mar 4, '06, 4:53 pm
PaulDupre PaulDupre is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

I agree with you. I just want to know where this strange yet widespread Evangelical belief came from.
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  #4  
Old Mar 4, '06, 4:57 pm
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sunnygirl807 sunnygirl807 is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Although I know of the health and wealth ministry, I have not heard anything about the 39 lashes. It will be interesting to see the responses.

I would ask him about the limp. Maybe he will see how he contradicts himself.
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Old Mar 4, '06, 5:22 pm
Eden Eden is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

I can't find the history of this idea, but I found a great quote on a Methodist site about this:

NOT BIBLICAL

'The belief that good Christians do not suffer is attractive and comforting, but sadly not biblical. An easy life free from pain and suffering may mean you are doing nothing for God and that the devil doesn't have to bother with you.

http://www.methodistmessage.com/aug2...flections.html

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  #6  
Old Mar 4, '06, 10:11 pm
reneeville reneeville is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

39 lashes comes from old Judaic law... to corelate them to the same number of diseases must be an evangelical presumption. Shalom~
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Punishing the Guilty
Other commandments, though not specific to wartime, prohibit excessive punishment of those found guilty of a crime. In defining the punishment for a civil offence, the Bible stipulates, "He may be given up to 40 lashes, but not more, lest being flogged further, to excess, your brother be degraded before your eyes" (Deuteronomy 25:3). The term "your brother," according to several citations in the Talmud and elsewhere, serves as a reminder that even a person deserving of serious punishment does not cease to be one's brother--a person akin to oneself (m. Makkot 3:15, etc.).

The medieval exegete Rashi, commenting on another section of Talmud, uses this verse as proof that "all of Israel is warned against embarrassing others" (comment to b. Sanhedrin 84b). While permissible, punishment should be carried out in such a way as to preserve the dignity of the one being punished. Rabbinic law also reduces the severity of the punishment to 39 lashes, out of fear that 40 lashes may kill one who is frail.

  #7  
Old Mar 5, '06, 12:22 am
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

There was also the fact that there might be a miscount of the number of lashes; to avoid ever going over the prescribed count, rabbis taught that 39 was the limit. (If you miscounted, you might then have 40 lashes, but no more.

I would ask about the limp, too...My observation of this kind of thinking is that it always applies to other people. The person who is talking about disease being caused by sin, never has any trouble seeking medical aid themselves....Others are presumed to have sinned. The health & wealth people, on the other hand, get themselves right off to the doctor for treatment.
It reminds me of Mary Baker Eddy, founder of "Christian Science", who banned all meds for everybody in the movement, until she got a severe toothache, & needed an extraction. She suddenly had all kinds of excuses for why she took morphine before, during, & after the tooth was pulled....
Think maybe there might be a little double standard here?
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Old Mar 6, '06, 5:42 am
stillsmallvoice stillsmallvoice is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Hi all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey
There was also the fact that there might be a miscount of the number of lashes; to avoid ever going over the prescribed count, rabbis taught that 39 was the
This is what I've heard. Giving over the prescribed count of 40 would be a violation of the Torah and, as such, a sin in and of itself.

Many here made much out of the fact that Saddam the Wicked lobbed 39 SCUDs at Israel back in 1991.

Be well!

ssv
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  #9  
Old Mar 6, '06, 6:55 am
JoeyWarren JoeyWarren is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

I would just print the answers here and show it to your co-worker....
  #10  
Old Mar 6, '06, 9:01 am
PaulDupre PaulDupre is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Thanks everyone for your responses, but I still don't know why Evangelicals think that diseases can be divided into 39 categories. There is absolutely no medical literature I can find that bears this out.

I think that some health-and-wealth preacher decided to make up a connection between the lashes and disease. He just created the idea of 39 categories of disease out of thin air, and it sounded so "wowee" that other Evangelicals just ran with it and never questioned whether it was factual or not.
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  #11  
Old Mar 6, '06, 9:02 am
JoeyWarren JoeyWarren is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulDupre
Thanks everyone for your responses, but I still don't know why Evangelicals think that diseases can be divided into 39 categories. There is absolutely no medical literature I can find that bears this out.

I think that some health-and-wealth preacher decided to make up a connection between the lashes and disease. He just created the idea of 39 categories of disease out of thin air, and it sounded so "wowee" that other Evangelicals just ran with it and never questioned whether it was factual or not.
Just another Tradition of Men? Like the Rapture?
  #12  
Old Mar 6, '06, 9:45 am
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyWarren
Just another Tradition of Men? Like the Rapture?
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  #13  
Old Mar 6, '06, 10:48 am
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

This isn't really even a mainstrean evangelical thing. I think it's more common in the Charismatic/Pentecostal churches.

Back when I used to listen to Proteestant Radio, there was a guy with a call-in show. I want to say it was Chuck Coleson, but I'm not too sure.

Anyway, one day this blind lady called in and said that she was tired of all the people in her church who told her that if she had more faith then she would be able to see.

"So you have a cane?", the host asked.

"A cane? Yes, I use a cane," she replied, the sound of confusion evident in her voice.

"Well next time someone says that to you," the host said, "whack them with your cane and tell them that if they had more faith it wouldn't smart."



I thought it was great. Not necessarily the right thing to do, of course...
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  #14  
Old Mar 6, '06, 10:50 am
JoeyWarren JoeyWarren is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?



  #15  
Old Mar 6, '06, 11:00 am
Anglo-catholic Anglo-catholic is offline
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Default Re: 39 lashes = 39 categories of disease?

Guys remember you are on a Non-Catholic thread and stereotypical statements aimed at "the Evangelicals" and shots at the "Rapture" are unwarranted.

The concept of 39 lashes came from one person - and as many pointed out - it is not a common belief even among Evangelicals - (even less common than burying statues to sell homes).

The term "rapture" carries a lot of "excess" baggage, but in essence (being caught up) - it is not unscriptural. 1 Thess 4:17
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