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  #1  
Old Apr 9, '06, 8:49 pm
valori valori is offline
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Default Kneeling BEFORE communion

I have recently moved to Alaska and noticed that congregation does not kneel after reciting "Lamb of God......." The missal does state that the bishop can permit standing. Why would he do that?
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  #2  
Old Apr 9, '06, 10:03 pm
tikiboy tikiboy is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Because people are lazy.

This leads to other modifications. Today(Palm Sunday) we were told to sit down for the Passion. As a kid I always stood still for the Passion(My Dad told me I'd get a plenary indulgence-don't know if that's true), and we kneeled before communion.

At my church in Orange County,CA we don't kneel before communion either.
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  #3  
Old Apr 9, '06, 10:09 pm
LeahInancsi LeahInancsi is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Kneeling before and during communion was about the only thing I saw done correctly during communion this morning. Almost nobody genucflected when approaching the server and very few crossed themselves after receiving the Eucharist.

My priest is very good about leading people through Mass with verbal instructions. I think this is something he might need address.
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  #4  
Old Apr 9, '06, 10:20 pm
LCMS_No_More LCMS_No_More is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiboy
Because people are lazy.

This leads to other modifications. Today(Palm Sunday) we were told to sit down for the Passion. As a kid I always stood still for the Passion(My Dad told me I'd get a plenary indulgence-don't know if that's true), and we kneeled before communion.

At my church in Orange County,CA we don't kneel before communion either.
First, it's the norm nowadays to sit for the Passion Gospel.

Second, in the US the norm is to kneel after the Lamb of God (Agnus Dei) but the local Ordinary can change it to standing if he chooses to do so. In LA and OC both have standing, but the parish I go to still kneels.
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  #5  
Old Apr 9, '06, 10:26 pm
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by valori
I have recently moved to Alaska and noticed that congregation does not kneel after reciting "Lamb of God......." The missal does state that the bishop can permit standing. Why would he do that?
It removes some confusion. Instead of some standing, some sitting and some kneeling everyone has the same posture of standing during Communion.

It is closer to what the 1970 Roman Missal and 1975 Roman Missal's had in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) n. 21. "... at every Mass the people should stand ... from the prayer over the gifts to the end of Mass, except in the places indicated later in this paragraph. ... They should sit ... if this seems helpful, during the period of silence after communion. They should kneel at the consecration unless prevented by the lack of space, the number of people present, or some other good reason.
"But it is up to the conference of bishops to adapt the actions and postures described in the Order of the Roman Mass to the customs of the people."
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  #6  
Old Apr 9, '06, 11:04 pm
viktor aleksndr viktor aleksndr is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

There are instances that we can stand after the agnus dei and even on the consecration.

1. If there are no kneelers.
2. if there are no kneelers and the floor might be dirty.
3. The mass is celebrated outside.

If that is the instance then at least a profund bow on consecration and a bow when we say the line " domine non sum dignum...".

People must always bear in mind that these gestures are not just a norms but it has a meaning. We kneel because in front of us is Christ; Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity. This is a sign of reverence to our redeemer.

The importance of these gestures must always be reminded to the people. This is not a simple bow of kneel or genuflect but it means a lot. If they always telling the people to assume an orans posture on the Lords Prayer (which is in the first place never found in the church documents) why not telling and informing people about these gestures.
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  #7  
Old Apr 9, '06, 11:46 pm
Isidore_AK Isidore_AK is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Run away!!!

Seriously...Not sure which diocese you're in, but if in the Anchorage Archdiocese, then you get to deal with the wonderful (feel the sarcasm) Archbishop Scweitz.

This blog covers the kneeling situation in our diocese...
http://maximaculpa.blogspot.com/2005...a_archive.html

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Last edited by Marian Carroll; Apr 10, '06 at 12:01 am. Reason: EDITED OFF TOPIC REMARKS
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  #8  
Old Apr 10, '06, 12:02 am
valori valori is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

I understand that the bishop has given permission to stand. I guess my question is this: Does he have to give a REASON as to why he doesn't think it necessary to kneel? I am very upset by the lack of reverance in the church. I am about to write a letter to the entire parrish.
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  #9  
Old Apr 10, '06, 12:25 am
Angels Watchin Angels Watchin is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by valori
I understand that the bishop has given permission to stand. I guess my question is this: Does he have to give a REASON as to why he doesn't think it necessary to kneel? I am very upset by the lack of reverance in the church. I am about to write a letter to the entire parrish.
Go Girl!!
and give him a call at his chancery office, while you're at it.
Speak to every secretary (kindly, of course) and ask the same question until you get a real answer.

EDIT

God bless,
Angel

Last edited by Marian Carroll; Apr 10, '06 at 12:33 am. Reason: REFERS TO NON RELATED THREAD
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  #10  
Old Apr 10, '06, 12:35 am
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by valori
I guess my question is this: Does he have to give a REASON as to why he doesn't think it necessary to kneel?
Brainstorming ideas on why the bishop might not think it is necessary to kneel:
1. He as bishop has decided its not necessary.
2. It is not necessary for the priest to kneel.
3. It is not necessary to kneel in some other countries.
4. When priest and people and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion all have the same posture they may feel more united.
5. People stand up to go to Communion, so why get them to kneel for just two sentences?
6. The GIRM does not make it necessary to kneel.
7. If the people kneel, should the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion? (In my experience they do not.)
8. Kneeling is uncomfortable.
9. If people are kneeling during the Communion Hymn it is harder for them to sing than if they are standing.
10. If some people kneel and others sit, the kneelers may knock the sitters in the back.
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  #11  
Old Apr 10, '06, 5:42 am
muledog muledog is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lilburne
It removes some confusion. Instead of some standing, some sitting and some kneeling everyone has the same posture of standing during Communion.
That would be well and fine, except for this small fact.

Prior to these changes made by a few bishops, it was the almost-universal custom of everyone kneeling before/after receiving Holy Communion. There was no confusion! It was more prayerful, and it made people who were not receiving Communion less "conspicuous."

Now, you have the case (as here in Indiana) where you have five dioceses with three policies on posture:

1. Keeping "old way" of doing things
2. Forcing everyone to stand
3. Allowing each parish to decide

So now, it's totally confusing! Our county borders two other dioceses that have different policies than our. And you still have people who kneel/sit after Communion, even though our bishop has "forbidden" the practice.

In reality, as you know, the Holy See has stated that any of these postures is legitimate for the congregation to assume after receiving Holy Communion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John
It is closer to what the 1970 Roman Missal and 1975 Roman Missal's had in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) n. 21. "... at every Mass the people should stand ... from the prayer over the gifts to the end of Mass, except in the places indicated later in this paragraph. ... They should sit ... if this seems helpful, during the period of silence after communion. They should kneel at the consecration unless prevented by the lack of space, the number of people present, or some other good reason.
"But it is up to the conference of bishops to adapt the actions and postures described in the Order of the Roman Mass to the customs of the people."
Ahhhh....but if you look at the current universal norms for Mass - minus the U.S. adaptations - you'll see that paragraph 43 of the GIRM states the following:

Quote:
"Where it is the custom that the people remain kneeling from the end of the Sanctus until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei, this is laudably retained."
I believe "laudably retained" means "praiseworthy" (which is a good thing.)

Besides, standing before/after Communion was never a "custom of the people" for the vast, vast majority of Americans.
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  #12  
Old Apr 10, '06, 6:41 am
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tee_eff_em tee_eff_em is online now
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Cool Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCMS_No_More
First, it's the norm nowadays to sit for the Passion Gospel.
The norm according to whom?

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  #13  
Old Apr 10, '06, 7:51 am
Ham1 Ham1 is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeahInancsi
Almost nobody genucflected when approaching the server and very few crossed themselves after receiving the Eucharist.
These are not abuses.

There is no requirement to genuflect before receiving (if that's what you mean here). There is also no requirement to make the sign of the cross after receiving Communion. This is entirely up to the individual.
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  #14  
Old Apr 10, '06, 8:24 am
vz71 vz71 is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lilburne
It removes some confusion. Instead of some standing, some sitting and some kneeling everyone has the same posture of standing during Communion.
Wouldn't this be the case no matter what posture the Bishop wanted people to take?
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  #15  
Old Apr 10, '06, 10:09 am
valori valori is offline
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Default Re: Kneeling BEFORE communion

I've read many responses. It seems that there are a lot of people who feel that it is unnecessary to show signs of respect toward our Lord. I have tried to think about a good reason for the bishop to permit standing. I came up with one. (Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how other's may feel "united" or not) Possibly because that many of the mission-type churches in Alaska are so small that kneeling is practically impossible. I have been to these services and understand the dilemma. Now the rest of the faithful have taken the easy road and followed suit. (?)
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