Need your help

Roman_Catholic · #1 Sep 16, '06, 3:00 pm

Its me, I am the one dealing with the anti-Catholic father in law. He sent an email and this is all it said:

Quote:

Who were the Bereans and what did they do?

I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks

YinYangMom · #2 Sep 16, '06, 3:03 pm

Googled and this is what I came across:

http://www.thebereancall.org/

The ministry name, The Berean Call, is taken from Acts 17:11 where the writer of Acts commended those in the synagogue of the Greek city of Berea for being more fair minded than those in Thessalonica, because while they were eager to receive the Word, they also checked it against what the Apostle Paul taught them in order to see if his teaching was according to the Scriptures or not.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/

If you go to their doctrinal page, among their doctrines is this:

4. "Mankind by nature is sinful and under the condemnation of God" (Eph 2:1-3, Rom 3:9-12, I Cor 1:18-31)

more: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

I can't tell if your father in law is asking about the orginal Bereans or these followers of a 'Berean' philosophy.

Roman_Catholic · #3 Sep 16, '06, 3:25 pm

So any idea where he may be going with this?

YinYangMom · #4 Sep 16, '06, 3:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

So any idea where he may be going with this?

Not a clue.

Perhaps you should respond with the factual...
that the Bereans were the people of Berea in the years of XX - XX AD to whom Paul taught...(of course you should read up on those passages of scriptures to start)...

then end the statement with "why do you ask?"

Roman_Catholic · #5 Sep 16, '06, 4:06 pm

Could he be using it as a defense for sola scritpura? Because they used scripture to make sure that Paul's teachings were correct? But wouldnt that actually be saying more than he wants, since during the time of Acts, there was no NT and the "scriptures" in the passsage refers to the OT, there for by his reasoning, the OT and not the entire Bible is the "sole rule of faith." If this made any sense at all.

Or maybe the infallibility of Paul? Even though I dont believe the Catholic Church teaches that Paul was infallible, do we? By them searching the scriptures for proof he could be using that as an example that they didnt believe Paul was infallble.... Once again only a problem if we teach Paul was infallible.

Just some things that caught my mind..

By the way thanks for your help.

**Church Militant** · #6 Sep 16, '06, 4:12 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

Its me, I am the one dealing with the anti-Catholic father in law. He sent an email and this is all it said:

I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks

I gotcha bro! I know exactly where he's goin' with this one. It's his lead off on pitch for Sola Scriptura.

Quote:

Acts 17

10 But the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea. Who, when they were come thither, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who received the word with all eagerness, daily searching the scriptures, whether these things were so. 12 And many indeed of them believed, and of honourable women that were Gentiles, and of men not a few.

Here's the note on that from my Douay-Rheims NT.

Quote:

11 "More noble"... The Jews of Berea are justly commended, for their eagerly embracing the truth, and searching the scriptures, to find out the texts alleged by the apostle: which was a far more generous proceeding than that of their countrymen at Thessalonica, who persecuted the preachers of the gospel, without examining the grounds they alleged for what they taught.

Now...this is often used by n-Cs/a-Cs to assert that the Bible is the final authority for all things, hence in support of the error of SS.

What they ignore is the context of the situation.

These were Jews hearing about Jesus as the Messiah for the first time. Where else would they have had to look to check this out? To any rational reader it's like ..."Well, DUH!"

This shows the difference between a literal reading and a literalist interpretation. John Martignoni explains this really well HERE. He also has an AWESOME MP3 download on Sola Scriptura that you shouldn't miss.
As always, if ya need anything more, don't hesitate to gimme a yell via PM or e-mail.

I ain't scared...

Pax Domiini sit semper vobiscum,

Liberian · #7 Sep 16, '06, 4:53 pm

Roman Catholic,

Church Militant is on the right track. Your father-in-law is headed in the direction of Sola Scriptura. Besides the resources that Church Militant listed, there is a good article on Catholic Answers at

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9703fea3.asp

- Liberian

VociMike · #8 Sep 16, '06, 5:05 pm

Others have pointed you to the Bereans in Acts. What is most interesting is that, even though Protestants constantly hold them up as models, they do not at all support the Protestant position!

What is the story of the Bereans? First, they had the true scriptures of their time (the OT). They also had the true gospel, preached by Apostles themselves. That is to say, they had the entire truth set before them. So what did they do? Some of them accepted the full and true gospel (along with some Gentiles, BTW). Others of the Bereans, presented the full and true gospel, rejected that gospel through their own private interpretation! They played by Protestant rules and ended up rejecting Christ!

The story of the Bereans is a fatal blow to the concept of Sola Scriptura, and to Protestantism as a whole.

Roman_Catholic · #9 Sep 16, '06, 5:41 pm

Hey thanks for everyones help, I spent about an hour typing up a response (although I forgot to copy what I sent, hopefully he responds so I have what I wrote, even though it was basically what everyone here told me about the Bereans), I will post what he responds with.

Until next time guys

maurin · #10 Sep 16, '06, 6:04 pm

Actually, I kind of think that Acts 17:11 is a better source for Tradition than it is for Sola Scriptura. Luke is explaining that the Bereans used the Old Testament in order to confirm the kerygmatic preaching of the Good News by Paul.

The reason that Paul describes the Bereans as "more noble than those in Thessalonica" is because when the texts relevant to Christ were read to them "many" of them were were converted to Christ, whereas in Thessalonica, only "some" of them were.

If anything about sola Scriptura can be taken out of this text, I think it would have to be sola Old Testament. Because Christ was preached, not written about at this time.

VociMike · #11 Sep 16, '06, 6:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

Hey thanks for everyones help, I spent about an hour typing up a response (although I forgot to copy what I sent, hopefully he responds so I have what I wrote, even though it was basically what everyone here told me about the Bereans), I will post what he responds with.

Until next time guys

FYI, all of your sent emails should end up in your "Sent" folder. I've never seen an email program that did not do that.

Roman_Catholic · #12 Sep 16, '06, 6:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by VociMike

FYI, all of your sent emails should end up in your "Sent" folder. I've never seen an email program that did not do that.

I got hotmail, and I dont think that messeage get sent to your sent folder unless you tell it to save it to your sent folder (Which I forgot to do this time

). Unless I just dont know what I am doing. Hopefully though he does respond to the email so I have back what I wrote.

thanks again

VociMike · #13 Sep 16, '06, 7:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

I got hotmail, and I dont think that messeage get sent to your sent folder unless you tell it to save it to your sent folder (Which I forgot to do this time

). Unless I just dont know what I am doing. Hopefully though he does respond to the email so I have back what I wrote.

thanks again

OK, just more proof that I don't know everything.

**jmcrae** · #14 Sep 16, '06, 7:19 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

I have no idea what he is talking about, anyone want to lend me a hand in this?

thanks

"Berean" is code for Sola Scriptura.

Being a "good Berean" means that you throw out everything that you can't find in the Bible.

Of course, the actual Bereans didn't find Jesus' name in the Old Testament. In fact (despite being very familiar with the Old Testament already) they had never even heard of Jesus until Paul told them (think, oral teaching of the Church).

Now that they had the oral teaching, or "tradition" as we call it, of the Church, which they got from Paul, they were able to read the Scriptures (which they had read many times before) in a new light, and by combining the oral tradition of the Church (which they had received from Paul) with the written word of Scripture, they were able to come to know Jesus.

This was something that they had been unable to do, using Scripture Alone. (Repeat that three times.)

So it is kind of ironic that the Bereans (who needed oral tradition to supplement their scripture reading) have somehow become the poster children of the Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) movement.

tundramom · #15 Sep 16, '06, 7:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roman_Catholic

So any idea where he may be going with this?

The Berean Call is a "ministry" of Dave Hunt. He is a former Catholic, I believe.

As far as your FIL's comments, the Bereans in the book of Acts were commended for searching the scriptures and being diligent in their learning.

I'd just tell your FIL that you thank him and that you intend to BE a Berean and search the scriptures for yourself.... then do it.

in Christ
Steph