Catholic taking Lutheran Educ. Class w/wife

Lampo · #1 Sep 17, '06, 8:20 am

This morning I went to a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) education class with my wife. She grew up Lutheran and is wanting a refresher. I am Catholic and would classify myself as strong in my faith, but still have much to learn. Two main reasons why I plan on attending this class with my wife. 1) Since we are now "one" in marrigage, I want to learn some of the faith of my other "part." 2) I feel it will strengthen my own Catholic faith. When a Lutheran teaching is discussed, I will investigate the Catholic teaching on the same issue. I would like to do a lot of the investigation on this forum. Does this seem reasonable, and would you all be willing to help me with questions I might have?

Today was the very first class. The Bible Alone was mentioned just in passing and so was OSAS. No questions were raised in my mind this morning regarding those issues. The pastor asked if anyone could explain what a Saint is. I definitely could have, but for whatever reason, I didn't raise my hand. He went on to explain that a Saint is someone who lives a holy life, dies and then canonized by the Catholic Church. I raised my hand and added that the Catholic Church also teaches that anyone that makes it to Heaven is a Saint and that we should all strive to live saintly lives while on this Earth. He said okay. He went on to say that we should view ourselves as Saints already. In a round about way, he based this on OSAS.

The pastor quoted Leviticus 19:1-2 saying that when God said, "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the LORD your God, am holy", that God wasn't [i]commanding[i]us to be holy, but He was [i]making[i] us holy. Hopefully, I've articulated his point. Is the Catholic teaching the same as the pastors'?

Do you think this is a good idea for me to join my wife in this class? Thanks for your input.

-Greg

Lampo · #2 Sep 17, '06, 8:32 am

Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?

Mr. Ex Nihilo · #3 Sep 17, '06, 8:41 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampo

Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?

Interesting point.

In regards to attendance, I have to admit that I have my own reservations on this matter.

There will be times when you will feel like screaming out against a teaching, and other times when you find common ground with Catholic teaching.

I'm not sure if you've already done this or not, but have you considered the RCIA as a kind of spiritual renewal. It seems to me a better way to do this would be for you to attend a Catholic course of some sort, or speak with your preist, and then compare your notes with your wive's notes from her Lutheran perspective and then ask questions "by proxy" through each other to the instructors of each program.

In all honesty, unless one is seriously grounded in their faith, I'm not sure if I would encourage someone to go to a non-Catholic course to investigate it further. They could end up more confused by the conflicting teachings that may come up.

Jabronie · #4 Sep 17, '06, 8:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampo

This morning I went to a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) education class with my wife. She grew up Lutheran and is wanting a refresher. I am Catholic and would classify myself as strong in my faith, but still have much to learn. Two main reasons why I plan on attending this class with my wife. 1) Since we are now "one" in marrigage, I want to learn some of the faith of my other "part." 2) I feel it will strengthen my own Catholic faith. When a Lutheran teaching is discussed, I will investigate the Catholic teaching on the same issue. I would like to do a lot of the investigation on this forum. Does this seem reasonable, and would you all be willing to help me with questions I might have?

Today was the very first class. The Bible Alone was mentioned just in passing and so was OSAS. No questions were raised in my mind this morning regarding those issues. The pastor asked if anyone could explain what a Saint is. I definitely could have, but for whatever reason, I didn't raise my hand. He went on to explain that a Saint is someone who lives a holy life, dies and then canonized by the Catholic Church. I raised my hand and added that the Catholic Church also teaches that anyone that makes it to Heaven is a Saint and that we should all strive to live saintly lives while on this Earth. He said okay. He went on to say that we should view ourselves as Saints already. In a round about way, he based this on OSAS.

The pastor quoted Leviticus 19:1-2 saying that when God said, "Speak to the whole Israelite community and tell them: Be holy, for I, the LORD your God, am holy", that God wasn't [i]commanding[i]us to be holy, but He was [i]making[i] us holy. Hopefully, I've articulated his point. Is the Catholic teaching the same as the pastors'?

Do you think this is a good idea for me to join my wife in this class? Thanks for your input.

-Greg

I didn't think Lutherans believed in OSAS. I know they believe Sola Fide, but that's different than OSAS.

seeker b · #5 Sep 17, '06, 10:49 am

Be careful, you will be Lutheran before you know it!!! Really l think you will see some differences but you might be surprised by how alike we are. I don't think we believe in osas because if you do not partake in the sacraments and live as God would want you to your soul would be in jeopordy.

JoeyWarren · #6 Sep 17, '06, 10:54 am

Take very good notes and it you have questions, come here and ask them.

Be wary....

also ask the wife to recriprocate the request as well by attending RCIA next year together as a refresher.

rr1213 · #7 Sep 17, '06, 10:58 am

The Immaculate Conception...no.

Lampo · #8 Sep 17, '06, 11:29 am

Does anyone have any comments on the Leviticus Chapter and verse I mentioned? The pastor said God was making us holy compared to commanding us to be holy. Is this the same understanding in the Catholic Church?

Also, thanks so far for your advice. I would ask my wife to join in RCIA too, but she didn't ask me to join her in this class. I volunteered for the previous mentioned reasons. I really have no desire to become Lutheran. I love my Catholic Faith!

I'll tell you what, from the message/tone of the pastor this morning, I sure walked away with the impression they believe in OSAS. He was blatant about it, but it was definitely there. I may quit going and just concentrate on my faith, I don't know. I'm taking the Catholic Home Study Course. Anyway, thanks again for the comments. I may go to the class again and pose another question or two on here.

Struggle · #9 Sep 17, '06, 11:32 am

I have been approached with a similar situation except my spouse is Wisconsin synod. I think the onlly way that I would agree to this is to take RCIA together as well. That way both partners are exposed to the teachings of both churches. I have not yet done this due to major time constraints.

Good luck!

JimmyJeff · #10 Sep 17, '06, 2:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampo

Oh yeah, another thing I thought of during the class. The pastor mentioned the burning bush, ten commandments and moses. He asked if we knew why God told Moses to take his shoes off. He said because God said the ground was holy. Holy because God was there and nothing God dwelled on or in could be unpure or unholy. This made me wonder if Lutherans believe in the Immaculate Conception. Does anyone know?

Lutherans don't but Luther did.

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/ma...er_on_mary.htm

Lampo · #11 Sep 17, '06, 4:04 pm

Just on a side note...When the pastor was referring to saints, he referenced Pope John Paul II a few times, but each time he could barely recall his name. I just found it interesting.

prkinnaman · #12 Sep 17, '06, 4:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rr1213

The Immaculate Conception...no.

Immaculate Conception , no. Virgin birth, most definately.

**mercygate** · #13 Sep 17, '06, 4:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampo

Does anyone have any comments on the Leviticus Chapter and verse I mentioned? The pastor said God was making us holy compared to commanding us to be holy. Is this the same understanding in the Catholic Church?

Not to put too fine a point on it, God does command holiness in Leviticus 11:44 & 45:

For I am the LORD your God; consecrate yourselves therefore, andbe holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls upon the earth. For I am the LORD who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God; you shall thereforebe holy, for I am holy." [/quote]

In Numbers God tells them to observe the commandments in order to be holy.

Keep us in the loop. This sounds interesting. I would not be surprised if LCMS believed in OSAS because my very learned friend who is LCMS says they do not believe in free will. But I would look to a more reliable source than either him or moi

LCMS has an official web site (sorry: don't know the URL).

rr1213 · #14 Sep 17, '06, 4:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by prkinnaman

Immaculate Conception , no. Virgin birth, most definately.

Two very different things. All orthodox Christians believe in the Virgin birth. The sinnless nature of Mary is something else.

rr1213 · #15 Sep 17, '06, 4:51 pm

Beliefs and practices of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=112