Catholic FAQ


We were unable to reach our goal for the summer but we have reached 98%
Please consider donating if you can and keep us in your prayers.


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Sep 17, '06, 3:36 pm
RobinHood RobinHood is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2005
Posts: 44
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Hi everyone, Thanks in advance for all your help.

I've been trying to show that the Catholic Church is the Church instituted by Christ by showing that only the Catholic Church can show true Apostolic succession.

But someone asked me who did the laying on of hands on Paul as his initiation into the sacramental priesthood. Another answered (I was speaking on a groups board on the web) that Ananias did but nobody can say if Ananias had this ritual done at all.

These people are debating that there is no such thing as sacaramental priesthood vs universal priesthood. Of course they wouldn't believe in the distinction because that would prove all other 'chruches' would be churches who splintered off from the main branch.

Anyway, I would appreciate anything you guys can tell me to explain to them how Paul did get the true ritual of the laying on of hands for the sacramental priesthood.

Thanks again
Robin
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Sep 17, '06, 3:52 pm
Genesis315 Genesis315 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Posts: 8,773
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

If not Ananias, maybe St. Peter. We can't assume every single detail has been recorded. It could just be Our Lord by a special grace gave him that authority.

Have the people you are debating with ever read St. Paul's letters to Timothy? He specifically tells Timothy to be very discerning and prudent with whom he lays hands on--why be so careful if laying hands doesn't do anything? Why even have the ritual of laying hands if any old Joe could just start being a priest or bishop without permission from a legitimate superior?
__________________
"Let prayer delight thee more than disputations, and the charity which buildeth up more than the knowledge which puffeth up."--St. Robert Bellarmine
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:04 pm
RobinHood RobinHood is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2005
Posts: 44
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

They seem to fuse the sacramental priesthood with the universal priesthood. Meaning that the laying on of hands is seen as if it were like baptism in the protestant world -- a symbol or sign.

Thanks for your help, it is truly appreciated.
God Bless
Robin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:07 pm
LilyM's Avatar
LilyM LilyM is offline
Forum Elder
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: February 1, 2006
Posts: 33,188
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Who says Paul needed laying on of hands? He was in every sense of the word an apostle, chosen by Christ himself as a replacement for Judas Iscariot, instituted in his priestly office by Christ himself as were the other Apostles. All the other Apostles accepted him as such.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:11 pm
Rawb's Avatar
Rawb Rawb is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2006
Posts: 2,183
Religion: Orthodox
Send a message via Skype™ to Rawb
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

I agree with Lily M. Paul was an apostle, sent by Christ himself. That's how I always heard it explained.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:12 pm
RobinHood RobinHood is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2005
Posts: 44
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Matthias was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot by throwing lots between Matthias and another. Paul was technically the thirteenth apostles but the he was still called one of the twelve.

I am not trying ot be critical here just accurate.

God Bless,
Robin
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:15 pm
Genesis315 Genesis315 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2005
Posts: 8,773
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinHood View Post
They seem to fuse the sacramental priesthood with the universal priesthood. Meaning that the laying on of hands is seen as if it were like baptism in the protestant world -- a symbol or sign.
Let's assume arguendo that it is just a symbol or sign--it's still a sign that authority is being bestowed. (Remember it is different than Baptism--they are scripturally two distinct rituals.) For someone to bestow authority, they have to have authority. Paul bestows it on Timothy and Timothy bestows it on others. What does it stand for to those you are debating? It has to stand for something important if St. Paul makes such a big deal about it.

Now as for it just being a sign, the Scriptures say it actually bestows grace:

2 Tim. 1:6 For which cause I admonish thee, that thou stir up the grace of God which is in thee, by the imposition of my hands.

I hope that helps
__________________
"Let prayer delight thee more than disputations, and the charity which buildeth up more than the knowledge which puffeth up."--St. Robert Bellarmine
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Sep 17, '06, 4:24 pm
copland copland is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Posts: 461
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

St. Jerome says this,
Quote:
As Sergius Paulus Proconsul of Cyprus was the first to believe on his preaching, he took his name from him because he had subdued him to faith in Christ, and having been joined by Barnabas, after traversing many cities, he returned to Jerusalem and was ordained apostle to the Gentiles by Peter, James and John. Lives of Illustrious Men Chapter 5
I am sure that with a little research you can find even more oral tradition concerning the ordination of St. Paul.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Sep 17, '06, 5:09 pm
mercygate mercygate is offline
Forum Elder
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: June 21, 2004
Posts: 15,421
Religion: Catholic via Canterbury
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Acts Chapter 13. The elders at Antioch lay hands on Barnabas and Saul at the prompting of the Holy Spirit "to set them apart for the work to whic I have called them."

In Chapter 11, Antioch is named as a place where those who had been scattered by the persecution that arose because of Stephen" had fled. It was at Antioch that Paul rebuked Peter for his eating habits. Peter is said to have been bishop at Antioch before going to Rome.
__________________
There are countless millions of Christians who will not accept anything, even Christ, from the Catholic Church. (Frank Sheed)
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 01
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Sep 17, '06, 9:00 pm
LilyM's Avatar
LilyM LilyM is offline
Forum Elder
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: February 1, 2006
Posts: 33,188
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercygate View Post
Acts Chapter 13. The elders at Antioch lay hands on Barnabas and Saul at the prompting of the Holy Spirit "to set them apart for the work to whic I have called them."

In Chapter 11, Antioch is named as a place where those who had been scattered by the persecution that arose because of Stephen" had fled. It was at Antioch that Paul rebuked Peter for his eating habits. Peter is said to have been bishop at Antioch before going to Rome.
Excellent research mercygate! That I did not know.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Sep 17, '06, 10:50 pm
Todd Easton Todd Easton is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2004
Posts: 3,269
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

St. Paul had hands laid upon him at least two times:

17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Acts 9:17)

2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:2-3)

The comments of St. Jerome cited by copland seem to refer to the events related in Galatians 2:1-10:
9and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised; 10only they would have us remember the poor, which very thing I was eager to do.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Sep 18, '06, 5:51 am
mercygate mercygate is offline
Forum Elder
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: June 21, 2004
Posts: 15,421
Religion: Catholic via Canterbury
Default Re: who did laying on of hands to Paul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Easton View Post
St. Paul had hands laid upon him at least two times:

17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." (Acts 9:17)

2While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:2-3)

The comments of St. Jerome cited by copland seem to refer to the events related in Galatians 2:1-10:
9and when they perceived the grace that was given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised; 10only they would have us remember the poor, which very thing I was eager to do.
Todd, you make a key point concerning the laying on of hands. Already in the infant Church the laying on of hands is an effective sign for receiving particular gifts of the Holy Spirit. Not everyone who receives the laying on of hands is commissioned as a ministerial priest or an Apostle. The charism is specific.
__________________
There are countless millions of Christians who will not accept anything, even Christ, from the Catholic Church. (Frank Sheed)
Tiber Swim Team - Class of 01
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Apologetics > Sacred Scripture

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8298Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5063CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4349Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: James_OPL
4033OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: 3DOCTORS
3849SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3603Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: James_OPL
3257Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3210Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: 4elise
3181Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3063For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: ineeda



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 2:42 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.