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  #1  
Old Sep 19, '06, 5:04 pm
RyanL RyanL is offline
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Religion: Catholic as the day is long...
Default Documenting James White...

James White, Reformed Baptist elder and administrator of Alpha & Omega Ministries, claims that he does not engage in ad hominem attacks on others. Moreover, James White frequently complains that others are guilty of this fallacy, and that he's an innocent man in this regard.

I'm starting this thread as a reference to document the hypocrisy of James White's claim. Please feel free to add your own documentation, but if you do, please include a citation/link. Remember...this is ONLY about ad hominem attacks, so only post where the MAN is attacked (not the argument) should be referenced. The veracity of any given statement is irrelevant...only that it's a personal attack and NOT an attack on a person's argument.

Beware - this will necessitate actually reading large quantities of James White's material and parsing through artful dodges. What do I mean by artful dodges? James White gave us a tip from his playbook when he made the following comment regarding Tim Staples:
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
Strangely, he refused to call me a liar, while styling a number of my comments lies.
Source.

This is precisely James White's usual tactic ("I didn't call him an idiot, I said all his ideas are idiotic..."), so it's odd that he would call someone else on it. Since this is James White's typical response to accusations of ad hominem attacks, please try to keep the quotes as on-point as possible.

Let the documentation begin! (All bold/color/underscores added for emphasis.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
...Dr. Sippo demonstrated a complete inability (or unwillingness) to behave in a respectful, proper manner. And nothing has changed in eleven years. Of course, one thing is always constant: Dr. Sippo will insult you in one paragraph, and then complain about how mean and unloving you are in the next.
Source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
...Roman Catholic apologists speak more to the intense hatred and emotionalism of these men
Source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
[Irony] It seems Rome's apologists are intent upon continuing to provide more and more evidence of their utter desperation as well as their complete willingness to attack the person rather than the issue. [/Irony]
Source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
Any person who can read Greek can see... [i]t is amazing that [Tim Staples] would attempt to use this passage... No one who is a serious scholar of the language would ever say such a thing.
Source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
Phil Porvaznik, a sometimes Roman Catholic "apologist" of sorts (more a humorous gadfly than a serious apologist)...
Source.

As a side note, it's interesting what James White has to say about ad hominem attacks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White
On a personal level, I was quite simply shocked at the amount of ad-hominem argumentation... Of course, I find such tactics indicative of a lost cause...
Source.

Exactly, Mr. White. Exactly.
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  #2  
Old Sep 19, '06, 5:09 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Arrow Is this the Room for an Argument?

RyanL quoting White << Phil Porvaznik, a sometimes Roman Catholic "apologist" of sorts (more a humorous gadfly than a serious apologist)... >>

Hey that's not an ad hominem attack if its most definitely true....

Phil P
  #3  
Old Sep 19, '06, 5:26 pm
RyanL RyanL is offline
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Default Re: Is this the Room for an Argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilVaz View Post
Hey that's not an ad hominem attack if its most definitely true....
While you made me laugh, it actually is an ad hominem. If I say, "Mr. X is an ugly man," it doesn't matter if it's true or not; what matters is that I'm attacking the man and not his argument.

Phil...you've been victimized!

God Bless,
RyanL
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  #4  
Old Sep 19, '06, 5:34 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Arrow This isn't an argument

White: Oh look, this isn't an argument!
PhilVaz: Yes it is!
White: No it isn't! (pause) It's just contradiction!
PhilVaz: No it isn't!
White: It IS!
PhilVaz: It is NOT!
White: You just contradicted me!
PhilVaz: No I didn't!
White: You DID!
PhilVaz: No no no!
White: You did just then!
PhilVaz: Nonsense!
White: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!



Phil P
  #5  
Old Sep 19, '06, 6:16 pm
Lazerlike42 Lazerlike42 is offline
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Default Re: Documenting James White...

I was going through all of his debates and catalouging such things because he wanted me to present such a claim on his program, but I got back to school and so I have no time to finsh this task right now. I do have a very partial list, though.
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  #6  
Old Sep 19, '06, 8:35 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Arrow To James

James from his Blog << You know what is odd about Phil? He knows he can never engage the biblical issues. He doesn't even try. Might want to pray for that young man. >>

Thanks for the prayers. As for engaging biblical issues:

The Catholic Church is the true Church

Peter is the Rock, etc

Some of my longer efforts. Second one's not finished either. I have a habit of not finishing things. Also not so young any more.....

Phil P
  #7  
Old Sep 19, '06, 8:43 pm
cestusdei cestusdei is offline
 
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Posts: 3,055
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Documenting James White...

I have debated many fundamentalists. Virtually all of them were filled with hatred. When they say they "love Catholics" you can see right through it.
  #8  
Old Sep 19, '06, 9:19 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Question ad hominem attacks

I found an ad hominem attack! Hooray!

James on his Blog << You know what is odd about Phil? He knows he can never engage the biblical issues. He doesn't even try. Might want to pray for that young man. >>

TRANSLATION: "Phil Porvaznik is a biblical moron and knows it."

Sorry, won't work. I did say I wouldn't debate with White on biblical issues back in 2002, but that's different. However, I have memorized every word White has ever spoken in every debate he had since 1990 which is precisely why I'm still Catholic and not Reformed Baptist.

John Martignoni is next and everyone knows that. Watch out.

Phil P
  #9  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:14 pm
CATHOLICHEAD CATHOLICHEAD is offline
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Default Re: Documenting James White...

JM is next? What do you mean by that Phil?
  #10  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:23 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Red face Martignoni vs. White

<< JM is next? >>

Major apologist White hasn't debated yet. Besides Scott Hahn.

But Martignoni is into debating so its inevitable. I say 2007 or 2008 they have their first series of debates. Maybe they can carefully narrow the topic to make it interesting.

Phil P
  #11  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:34 pm
CATHOLICHEAD CATHOLICHEAD is offline
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Default Re: Documenting James White...

JM is a great apologist. That'd be interesting to see, more interesting than White debating anyone else I think. White also hasn't debated KK, which I doubt will ever happen, and I doubt he'd debate Hahn either. In fact..I've never heard Hahn debate ANYONE. :-)
  #12  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:42 pm
Scotty Wuebb Scotty Wuebb is offline
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Join Date: September 19, 2006
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Question New to this blog..Why more hatred toward Dr White than to Muslims??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cestusdei View Post
I have debated many fundamentalists. Virtually all of them were filled with hatred. When they say they "love Catholics" you can see right through it.
Hello, I am new in here. I just happen to notice A LOT of hatred toward a fellow Christian, Mr. White. While he may not believe the way you believe does that mean he's filled with hatred? Look in the mirror. The hatred I see is coming from this blog. Why are you saying fundamentalists are filled with Hate. I consider myself a fundamentalist and I love ALL Christians. I feel sorry for MUSLIMS who are so lost! Forgive me, but as a new member, that's how I see it. I have read some of Mr. White's blogs to. The man obviously loves Jesus Christ as Catholics do. Why in the world so much hatred toward the man. Why are you talking as if Dr. White is more evil than these Muslims who want YOU all wiped off the earth!! These blogs should be filled with sorrow that Muslims are so lost! At least Mr. White is a Christian! Come on people. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. Feel free to respond. Thank You!
  #13  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:46 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Exclamation no more White threads

<< Hello, I am new in here. I just happen to notice A LOT of hatred toward a fellow Christian, Mr. White. >>

Please fellow Catholics, do not start any more White threads unless you have a detailed mega-rebuttal to offer that does not attack the person (called ad hominem fallacy). Hate will cause all White threads to be locked. We don't want that. Love only along with massive mega-rebuttals.

Phil P
  #14  
Old Sep 19, '06, 10:58 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Exclamation Hahn debates

<< I've never heard Hahn debate ANYONE. >>

Three Hahn debates are out there.

In 1989 with Robert Knudsen on Authority and Justification (transcripts available online somewhere)

In 1990 on CRI's B.A.M. various topics (MP3 on my site)

In 1997 with Robert Bowman (formerly of CRI)

Hahn also moderated the first Matatics-White debate on the Papacy in 1990 when White was still using the Gregory the Great "universal bishop" quote, and the two St. Jerome quotes that Dom John Chapman demolished 100 years ago.

Phil P
  #15  
Old Sep 20, '06, 6:11 am
Mickey Mickey is offline
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Default Re: Documenting James White...

Why does Mr White feel the need to monitor Catholic Answers? In his blog he says, One thing is for certain, truth lies fallen in the corridors of the Catholic Answers forums, and few there be who seem to mourn its passing.”

If CA is so devoid of truth, why does the forum matter to him? He seems to be offended by hyper-space chatter. Then he insults Phil by saying “He knows he can never engage the biblical issues. He doesn't even try.” I don’t understand this man.

Christians, (protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox alike), should not be driven by elitism and spiritual pride—it is a dangerous thing.



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