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  #1  
Old Oct 2, '06, 3:53 am
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Default Sex crimes and the Vatican

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr...ma/5389684.stm

My heart sank as I watched the trailers during the week for this awful program which was on last night here.
It came across as badly as you would expect and disappointingly offered absolutely no counter point or argument from anyone in the Church at all.

It attacked the Vatican and the Pope directly in relation to abuse across the world

I do think that mistakes have been made in the Church regarding this issue, as they have been made in all kinds of institutions- it is easy to look back now and cast incriminating glances at the mistakes made, and yes, it is never OK and it should never have happened- but surely a program like this is just senseless and provokes hatred and distrust?? Or, does it serve as to develop an impetus to change the policies that are wrong? Are/ were the policies wrong (specifically Crimen Sollicitationis)? Should we as Catholics, demand some sort of response from the Vatican to address these accusations? To offer some form of explanation and reassurance?
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  #2  
Old Oct 2, '06, 5:35 am
bones_IV bones_IV is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingFat View Post
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/progr...ma/5389684.stm

My heart sank as I watched the trailers during the week for this awful program which was on last night here.
It came across as badly as you would expect and disappointingly offered absolutely no counter point or argument from anyone in the Church at all.

It attacked the Vatican and the Pope directly in relation to abuse across the world

I do think that mistakes have been made in the Church regarding this issue, as they have been made in all kinds of institutions- it is easy to look back now and cast incriminating glances at the mistakes made, and yes, it is never OK and it should never have happened- but surely a program like this is just senseless and provokes hatred and distrust?? Or, does it serve as to develop an impetus to change the policies that are wrong? Are/ were the policies wrong (specifically Crimen Sollicitationis)? Should we as Catholics, demand some sort of response from the Vatican to address these accusations? To offer some form of explanation and reassurance?

When you stop to think of it, much of British history stems from Henry VIII's break with Rome. Rightly or wrongly, so much has come from that split. What else can the Brits say? Go figure. Ex-catholics and protestants who just simply hate the Church. Television types these days don't like anyone or any institution which threatens their desire to promote sex, materialism, relativism, consequentialism, and many other 'isms. No surprise coming out of the BBC. Remember Roth Hochhuth's "the deputy" which defamed Pope Pius XII? Same thing here.
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  #3  
Old Oct 2, '06, 5:40 am
bones_IV bones_IV is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Here's what Ed Peters has to say.


Does the BBC enjoy being so far behind the fact curve?
Apparently the BBC thinks that if the Vatican publishes a document in 2001, (which the Catholic press reported on in early 2002), but the BBC only notices it five years later, the document must have been a deep dark Vatican secret till then. Quick, what's British English for "Get real"?

Britain's Evening Standard reports that the BBC just aired a "Panorama" story about how Pope Benedict XVI, as head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, sent a "secret Vatican edict" to bishops around the world (right, like that's a group that could keep a secret if it tried), an edict so secret "that bishops had to keep it locked in a safe at all times", which ordered a massive cover-up of clergy sexual misconduct. Besides narrating the usual litany of "worst-possible-interpretations" of various statements in the document...,

Anyway, more than a year ago, when another British press organ, The Observer, tried to hype the alleged cover-up angle of this very same story, I blogged on it (27 April 2005) [ *see note below], pointing out that Cdl. Joseph Ratzinger's so-called secret document was published in the official journal of the Holy See, the Acta Apostolicae Sedis, vol. 93 (2001) on pp. 785-788; for that matter, it was available on the Vatican website for at least several months before The Observer thought it broke the story in April of 2005. Now c'mon: it's bad enough the BBC and the Standard don't read the Acta Apostolicae Sedis; don't they even read The Observer?

Anyway, as I said back then, apparently Pope Benedict has a lot to learn about how to keep documents secret: like not publishing them in journals distributed around the world. What surprises me (though only mildly; this is main-line British journalism we're dealing with) is that I get to say it all again.

Discuss the CDF document, if you wish, O Media Elites; debate it even; but don't pretend that it was some sort of dark secret all this time, or portray yourself as valiant crusaders in search of the hidden truths, braving Vatican fury to inform the ignorant masses. Cuz it wasn't, and you're not.

Resources: John Paul II's enabling legislation (AAS 93: 737-739); Cdl. Joseph Ratzinger's implementing letter (English translations are widely available). Follow-up on British hierarchy replies.

Ah, the original "Panorama" segment is now on-line here (it runs a little under 40 minutes). It contains its own share of serious mistakes and misunderstandings (which I will address), but the sloppy Evening Standard report on the BBC program, critiqued above, has certainly compounded the confusion for everyone.

http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch05.htm


http://www.canonlaw.info/2006/10...far- behind.html
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  #4  
Old Oct 2, '06, 5:43 am
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

BBC is now controlled by a militant activist lesbian and will shortly be appointed the next Director-General of the Beeb. This is the top job in this organization, and she will control all the BBC's output and programming. Hence, we must expect more and more programs of this vile nature to come from this broadcaster, one which proclaims that "nation shall speak peace unto nation". Unless, that is, the nation in question happens to be the Vatican. BBC=BRITISH BULLSH** COMPANY
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  #5  
Old Oct 2, '06, 5:50 am
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

So there is no issue as far as you're concerned bones?
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Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.
~ Ubi caritas et amor deus ibi est.~
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http://marklambert.blogspot.co.uk/
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  #6  
Old Oct 2, '06, 6:36 am
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingFat View Post
So there is no issue as far as you're concerned bones?

You just have to accept the fact that mistakes were made. The root of all this mess is dissent in church teachings and in the seminaries. Cardinal Ratzinger didn't cover up the sex abuse scandal either. Which is a flat our lie.
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  #7  
Old Oct 2, '06, 6:46 am
Saint_Michael Saint_Michael is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

That document is flat out screwed up. The main concern isn't the sensationalizing of the scandal all T.V. stations will do that, even one without lesbians running the show.

The main concern is actually reading that document and you can see in plain English how our Bishops and now Pope dealt unfairly and with no integrity sex crimes commited by the clergy. There's insinuations to use fear on the victim to keep them silent, the document is sick. I can't remain in a Church that thought the best way to deal with child rapists is scare them into silence and cover it up. This can't be God's Church when this is the mentality. I can't give one more dime to this Church. This is very damaging to me.
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  #8  
Old Oct 2, '06, 6:54 am
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Michael View Post
That document is flat out screwed up. The main concern isn't the sensationalizing of the scandal all T.V. stations will do that, even one without lesbians running the show.

The main concern is actually reading that document and you can see in plain English how our Bishops and now Pope dealt unfairly and with no integrity sex crimes commited by the clergy. There's insinuations to use fear on the victim to keep them silent, the document is sick. I can't remain in a Church that thought the best way to deal with child rapists is scare them into silence and cover it up. This can't be God's Church when this is the mentality. I can't give one more dime to this Church. This is very damaging to me.
I don't think it's that simple...It is a perspective and bad things have happened, but, as someone who has some experience of abuse, I would point out that no one knew how to deal with abuse until pretty recently.
The BBC is pretty anti-Catholic most of the time, it does cover stuff and is usually pretty unbiased, but the Pope thing was stirred up by the Beeb and the Gaurdian reporting it first AND IN ARABIC!! and this is similarly one sided~ there was absolutely no counterpoint or journalistic attempt to get a perspective from the point of view of the Church; it was an out and out sell it job- it made out the whole Church was corrupt and that is not how the hierachy works, let alone Church policy!!
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Roma locuta est, causa finita est
Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.
~ Ubi caritas et amor deus ibi est.~
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi
http://marklambert.blogspot.co.uk/
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  #9  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:02 am
bones_IV bones_IV is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Michael View Post
That document is flat out screwed up. The main concern isn't the sensationalizing of the scandal all T.V. stations will do that, even one without lesbians running the show.

The main concern is actually reading that document and you can see in plain English how our Bishops and now Pope dealt unfairly and with no integrity sex crimes commited by the clergy. There's insinuations to use fear on the victim to keep them silent, the document is sick. I can't remain in a Church that thought the best way to deal with child rapists is scare them into silence and cover it up. This can't be God's Church when this is the mentality. I can't give one more dime to this Church. This is very damaging to me.

Unfortunately, there were Bishops who did shift priests from one Church to another one and did in fact cover up. But the actions of a few doesn't automatically speak for the whole does it? The Pope doesn't have phycological powers. He did what he could. He made many reforms in the priesthood. The BBC is an embrassment and they really oughta put their money back in their pockets. The America media lost credibility with their virolent denunciation of the Passion of the Christ. Who are you to tell the pope how to do his job? I suppose you can do better. Answer that.
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  #10  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:04 am
godsent godsent is offline
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

I do feel as though the vatican is hiding something still though...i don't think we know EVERYTHING about the vatican as we would like to think.

There is definetely something they are not telling us or keeping from us.
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  #11  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:06 am
bones_IV bones_IV is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsent View Post
I do feel as though the vatican is hiding something still though...i don't think we know EVERYTHING about the vatican as we would like to think.

There is definetely something they are not telling us or keeping from us.

That would be what? I can see how you would think that if you give into the media's manipulation of the sex abuse scandal. The root of all this, is because of the Church's teachings on abortion, contraception, homosexuality ect.
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  #12  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:08 am
Saint_Michael Saint_Michael is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingFat View Post
I don't think it's that simple...It is a perspective and bad things have happened, but, as someone who has some experience of abuse, I would point out that no one knew how to deal with abuse until pretty recently.
The BBC is pretty anti-Catholic most of the time, it does cover stuff and is usually pretty unbiased, but the Pope thing was stirred up by the Beeb and the Gaurdian reporting it first AND IN ARABIC!! and this is similarly one sided~ there was absolutely no counterpoint or journalistic attempt to get a perspective from the point of view of the Church; it was an out and out sell it job- it made out the whole Church was corrupt and that is not how the hierachy works, let alone Church policy!!
I'm not talking about a sensational report, I'm talking about the document in question, read it for yourself, it's very disturbing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h...en_english.pdf

I'm done I am out of this Church it is corrupt to the core, this is horrible. I have my son in Catholic school, my life revolves around daily Mass, Sunday Mass, this Church was my life.
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  #13  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:10 am
godsent godsent is offline
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

I don't exactly know,i just don't feel they are telling us the whole truth...i don't know the facts,and you don't know the facts,noone has the correct answer here.

Alls im saying is there is something we don't know.

I had a priest,who i was very good friends with,who in 1993 abused a 3 year old girl.

In 2001 he was my local parish priest.
He abused again,they sent him to rome where he stayed in a convent,now he is back in kent serving a parish in deal...

I mean send him to jail!!!!.
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  #14  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:12 am
bones_IV bones_IV is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsent View Post
I don't exactly know,i just don't feel they are telling us the whole truth...i don't know the facts,and you don't know the facts,noone has the correct answer here.

Alls im saying is there is something we don't know.

I had a priest,who i was very good friends with,who in 1993 abused a 3 year old girl.

In 2001 he was my local parish priest.
He abused again,they sent him to rome where he stayed in a convent,now he is back in kent serving a parish in deal...

I mean send him to jail!!!!.

Straw man argument.
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  #15  
Old Oct 2, '06, 7:16 am
godsent godsent is offline
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Default Re: Sex crimes and the Vatican

Quote:
Originally Posted by bones_IV View Post
Straw man argument.

Could you elaborate on that comment please...i don't quite understand what you mean?
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